Episode 102 | How Franchise Development Builds New Business Leaders with John Dobelbower

John Dobelbower  00:00

Professional experience. Of course, you have, you know, a bunch of corporate refugees, right? They want to get out of corporate America. America, they want to go and hang their own shingle and and that’s a large part of the people that we attract. But at the end of the day, it’s not about that. What they all have in common, though, Karan, is they all have had success in the past, because here’s what we know, okay, if you surround already successful people with coaches and mentors and marketing and support. They’re not going to become less successful, right? They’ve become more successful.

Voiceover  00:04

Welcome to the lead at the top of your game podcast where we equip you to more effectively lead your seat at any employer, business or industry in which you choose to play. Each week, we help you sharpen your leadership acumen by cracking open the playbooks of dynamic leaders who are doing big things in their professional endeavors. And now your host leadership tactics and organizational development expert, Karan Farrell Rhodes.

Karan Rhodes  00:36

Hello, superstars. This is Karan, and welcome back to this week’s episode of the lead at the top of your game podcast. I am just over the moon to have such a fantastic guest with us today, and I know you’re gonna absolutely enjoy him. We’re pleased to have on today’s show. John Dobelbower and I hesitated because I wanted to make sure I got his last name correct. Dobelbower, who is the vice president of franchise development at Pirtech USA. And PirTech is a company that provides the fastest hydraulic and industrial hose maintenance and replacement services throughout the United States. And yes, that was a mouthful, but they are doing some absolutely fantastic work that’s really needed. You know, they have over 150 locations, and they offer services that minimizes equipment downtime and eliminates the need for customers to leave their job sites to locate new hydraulic or industrial hoses and fittings. So they are the 911of this field, and I can’t wait to dig into more about John’s role, what protect does, and to learn a little bit more about his leadership philosophy. So welcome to today’s podcast, John.

John Dobelbower  01:55

Yea, Karan. I certainly appreciate the opportunity to be here and share the time with you for sure.

Karan Rhodes  02:01

Absolutely. We’re so happy to have you. Well you know, before we dig into all this good information we’re going to talk about, we always like to learn just a little more about our guests, so, for just as much as you feel comfortable, would you mind giving us just a sneak peek into your life outside of work?

John Dobelbower  02:18

Yea, sure! Well, high level, I’ve got a six year old that’s about to turn seven tomorrow, so she’s incredibly excited about that a five year old and a 10 year old. So it was great. I remember what it was like to sleep seven years ago. But yeah, they it’s been good, right? They keep me busy, certainly on the weekends. Just enjoy hanging out with them, and, you know, going swimming in the pool or whatever, you know.

Karan Rhodes  02:44

Oh, I love that. Such great ages too. I will say, enjoy it, because it flies by like crazy. Our daughter just left the coupe fin. It’s eerily quiet. So it seems like yesterday she was bored. So such fun ages that you have there. Well, awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing that. So let’s just kind of dive in just a little bit, John. And would love to hear just a high level overview of your career thus far, and hopefully that would help us to better understand how you got into franchising, the franchising field

John Dobelbower  03:21

Yeah, so it’s, it’s been quite a path. I don’t think anyone ever grows up thinking, Man, I can’t wait to be in the industrial and hydraulic hose business. And it certainly didn’t start out that way for me. You know, I started my first business when I was in college. It was a house painting company. Ended up growing it to three locations, right? And was actually doing pretty well. But, you know, when I graduated college, I convinced myself I got to go get a big boy job, you know, because, for whatever reason, I didn’t think that was a big boy job, which, you know, looking back on, it wasn’t really all that smart, because I was making more money than some of my professors at that point. But I ended up getting in the in the financial services business. So was doing, you know, pretty well there. I was doing investment planning and life insurance planning and things like that for people. And one day, one of my customers came up to me. He owned a scrap metal recycling yard. And so he came up to me and he said, Hey, John, listen, you’re the investment guy. I need an investment in my business. And I said, Well, you know, that’s not really the way it works. That’s kind of illegal. It’s called the private placement. But I I’ll tell you, what I can do is I can make a personal investment into your business. And so one thing led to another, I ended up getting into the scrap metal business, which I had never anticipated doing, right? But had some success, ended up growing that business, and then finally, was recruited into franchising to help people get on the same path that I was on this whole entrepreneurial journey. And so I started franchise development with a company called the Neighborly Brands. They own a bunch of different brands, but I ended up leading a couple of those brands. And then subsequently, was recruited away from them, to Pirtech where I where I am today.

Karan Rhodes  05:03

That is absolutely awesome. Now, can you share just a little bit more about, first, about what PirTech does, and then secondly, what a VP of franchise development is responsible for sure?

John Dobelbower  05:17

So while Pirtech, we’re the largest hydraulic No, no, no, you’re good. You’re good, perfect. Is the largest hydraulic and industrial Hose Company in the world. And so all that really means Karan is anything that moves up, down, left or right, it’s typically powered by hydraulics. A lot of people think of the construction machinery on the side of the road during your morning commute, all the yellow machines? Well, of course, they move up, down, left and right. They’re powered by hydraulics, but sometimes it’s things that you wouldn’t even necessarily think of. So Karan, if you were to go get a massage this afternoon, you’re going to sit on that massage table. Well, guess what? It has the ability to go up and down. It’s powered by hydraulics, right? My kids when they get off the school bus, at school bus stores open, they’re powered by hydraulics, and so these hydraulic hoses are absolutely everywhere. Where our niche is, we are the provider of replacement for those hoses, because those hoses have a shelf life. So you know, when you did that lead in and you were talking about how we keep businesses operating, that’s really what we do. A construction machine goes down. We’re out there 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365, days a year, within one hour to replace that hose to get that business up and operational again.

Karan Rhodes  06:32

That’s a big guarantee to say you try to be there within one hour. Across the US, you must have a lot of either employees or contractors or external folks to help support that service delivery level, yes or no?

John Dobelbower  06:49

Well, so I’m working on that. So it kind of ties into your second question, which is, what is the director of franchise development? So at the end of the day, most people, when they think about franchising, they think about the McDonald’s of the world, right? It’s one person that owns that restaurant, but they’re branded under the name McDonald’s, and they use the systems and the coaching, the tools, the support, the marketing, the buying power, all those different things, to create their own little McDonald’s Empire under that brand name. Same thing is true at protect so what I do is I recruit entrepreneurial type people that are wanting to go out and start a new business, but they don’t necessarily have that playbook. We at pertec, we do have that playbook. That’s how we became the largest in the space. And so we show these entrepreneurs how to implement that playbook so that we can spread our footprint across the country, so that we can maintain that one hour eta across all these different markets across the United States, as well as Canada.

Karan Rhodes  07:46

And I can imagine how important that is to those companies that use hydraulics because they can’t afford themselves to have a lot a large amount of downtime as their businesses require it correct?

John Dobelbower  08:01

Yeah, 100%. I mean, some of our largest we have national accounts here at Pirtech, and so some of our largest national accounts are rental companies, brands you would know, think United rentals, Sunbelt Rentals, H & E equipment, Herc, all the rentals, right? And the reason that that’s important is because these construction pieces of machinery that they’re putting out there on rent. Well, if a hydraulic hose pops and that machine isn’t operational for a four hour period of time, they can’t charge rent that day. So it’s very important for them to go the machine fix, you know, pretty quickly, because if they don’t right, they’re not gonna be able to charge rent. So, but the same thing is true across multiple industries. The reality is, downtime kills businesses. So we just eliminate downtime. It’s less about that, that widget of the hose. It’s more about creating an environment where you don’t have that downtime.

Karan Rhodes  08:53

Interesting. And so what is an ideal can or who, what profile is an ideal candidate for someone for Pirtech, because I’m assuming it’s not like a Subway, if you will, where it’s kind of easier to make sandwiches versus repairing hydraulic hoses and starting a business or franchise, or owning a franchise that delivers those types of services, especially with that service level agreement. So what is a great profile candidate for someone interested in Pirtech?

John Dobelbower  09:30

So I’ll tell you from a professional background, it’s wide ranging. I’ve helped an eight time Grammy winner become a franchise owner throughout my career, right? I’ve helped professional athletes become franchise owners with us, and then I’ve helped people that started out in the field, literally, you know, wrenching on these hydraulic hoses, and they became franchise owners as well, and everything in between. So it’s not really about the professional experience. Of course, you have, you know, a bunch of corporate refugees, right? They want to get out of corporate America. America, they want to go and hang their own shingle and and that’s a large part of the people that we attract. But at the end of the day, it’s not about that. What they all have in common, though, Karan, is they all have had success in the past, because here’s what we know, okay, if you surround already successful people with coaches and mentors and marketing and support. They’re not going to become less successful, right? They’ve become more successful. So that’s a number one, the first thing that we look for. And then the second thing is, you know, we ask our franchise owners to be excellent, really, at three things, none of which have anything to do with the hydraulic hose business, right? Number one, it’s following a proven marketing plan, right? We know this works. We’ve done this over 500 times across 24 different countries. We know that the marketing plan works, but it’s only going to work if you follow it. Okay? Number two is you have to be the type of person that can lead, inspire, motivate, manage, and encourage team members. And then number three is you have to have a firm understanding of the numbers. And that doesn’t mean that you need to be, you know, a CPA, or have a finance background or anything like that, because we have our business coaches that walk alongside you and help you understand the KPIs of that business, help you evaluate what business metrics need to be evaluated. But you have to be coachable, right to those KPIs and coachable to the system that we have in place for our franchisees?

Karan Rhodes  11:22

Very interesting. So if I am interested in being a franchisee, and I have those qualifications, and I’m willing to put in the work and I’m passionate about it, what are the high level block of areas that you all help train the owners in? So I’m assuming there’s some, I know you help with marketing and things like that, but there’s service levels, there’s hiring, there’s finding locations. If you have a brick and mortar, I’m not quite sure. I believe they do, but I’m not sure about that, or is it virtual? So what are the high level bucket of education that a franchise e would get.

John Dobelbower  12:02

So yeah, so it’s all of the above, like you speak to training to begin with. The way that works is, if you were awarded a franchise with us, and by the way, franchises are not sold, they’re awarded, right? We go through what we call a mutual evaluation process. The obviously, the perspective franchisee, in this case, you you would be evaluating us to make sure that we would be a good partner. But we’re going to do the same thing, right? Because it’s our brand at stake. We want to make sure that Karan is, you know, on top of her game. So I think, I think as you put those pieces together and you say, Okay, this is the person that we want award a franchise to, then comes the training. And so that starts off with the virtual component learning, you know, the blocking and tackling of the business. Ultimately, that culminates into two weeks at our corporate office in Rockledge, Florida. The first week is technical in nature, so we show you how to build a hose, not because we want our franchise owners to go out and build hoses, but it’s important to understand how to do it. And then the second week is more business in nature, you know, how do you run a marketing plan? How do you do all these different things? And so then we send you off, right? And we say, Hey, you had these two weeks worth of training. But we don’t just leave you hanging. We send ourselves out to your location for two weeks, and we continue that training out in the field for our franchisees, and so that training is ongoing. We go out to our franchise locations. We have 163 now in the United States. We go out to each and every one of them at least twice a year to help those owners with what they need help with.

Karan Rhodes  13:35

Interesting and from agreement that it is a win win for you both to hang the shingle and letting people know about your, you know, in your territory, knowing that there’s business, how long does, on average, does that usually take?

John Dobelbower  13:53

It’s about 120 days from, you know, we’re, we’re ready to go to I’ve done the training, I’ve done site selection, I’ve, you know, set up the brick and mortar. I’ve done everything. It’s about 120 days on average.

Karan Rhodes  14:07

Interesting. Well, when you came to her tech, I’m sure they had, well, I don’t know, I was gonna say I’m sure, because I don’t know the story, but I’m assuming they had at least a framework for franchising in place. But I’m curious about a couple of the things that you have brought in, as far as ideas and processes, to protect, to help the help grow, I guess your franchises across the US.

John Dobelbower  14:34

So I certainly can’t take all the credit for it as what I will say are. So we’ve been in the United States for about 26 years, and we grew very slowly and very responsibly until about five years ago, not saying that we became irresponsible, right? But we started to really accelerate that growth. And so that was really in tandem with our CEO. Her name is Kim gubera. She came in about five years. Ago, she grew the network by about 92% over that five year period of time. Then I came in, and we further accelerated that growth quite a bit. And so our goal is to increase the size of the network to double, double what it is today, over a relatively short period of time, three to five years. So we’re in pretty heavy growth mode, but I think that creates a good opportunity for our new franchise owners coming in, as well as our existing owners that have been there for years, helping to further globalize the pro tech name. We’re big in the hydraulic and industrial host space, but we’re not a household name, right? And most people don’t know per tech if you’re sitting around the coffee table, but that is the goal, you know, for people to understand who we are and what, what it is that we do.

Karan Rhodes  15:45

Yeah, I can understand, definitely how that is the growth goal, because that’s how you get the word out and get people who would maybe interested in expanding. But I’m, you know, with any expansion of any business, there are always scaling challenges. So how to have you all thought about how to grow at the rate that you’re looking to try to grow at in the next, you know, few years, and not make your people go insane? Your internal people.

John Dobelbower  16:15

Well, yeah, I’m glad you said that. It’s all about the people, right? And so before you go through explosive growth. I think it’s important to understand and have a plan of how you’re going to manage that growth responsibly and successfully. And so we did that preemptively. I mean, obviously I came into protect but it wasn’t just me. I hired some people. We had a new guy start today on my team. And so that’s constant growth on our team, but it’s also constant growth from support standpoint. We’ve continued to add what we call franchise consultants, or THINK, THINK coaches to the entrepreneurs, but we’ve continued to add in that department. We’ve continued to add for our supply chain, all these different things, anticipating rapid growth, right? But having a system and a plan in place with the people in place, so that no one gets past their bandwidth and they can manage that growth successfully.

Karan Rhodes  17:09

And what is Pirtech see on the horizon? I know you’re looking to expand and grow, but are there other major accomplishments or initiatives that you can share, and I want it to be a secret or IP kind of stuff, but that you can share that you’re looking at in the next, you know, 12 to 18 months?

John Dobelbower  17:29

Yeah, so it’s an interesting question. The hydraulic hose industry in the United States is about a $1.8 billion business, okay? The if you add industrial hoses. On top of that, it’s an additional 1.8 billion. It doubles the market size right to 3.6 we are very, very strong in the hydraulic hose space, not so much in the industrial so I think that is an opportunity for growth for us number one, because it’s double the market size. But even if it were just hydraulics, right, we’re the largest out there. We only have $150 million worth of market share. And so if you think about the market, market is incredibly highly fragmented. You have a bunch of mom and pops out there that don’t necessarily have the level of sophistication or training or all the different things that we have. I think it’s a perfect opportunity to essentially roll up that business and continue to take market share in a pretty big industry, but a very niche industry. You know, someone told me a long time ago, the riches are in the niches. And I came to protect and then I really figured out what they meant, right? So it’s,

Karan Rhodes  18:37

Oh, that’s awesome. Do you all think you ever go global? Or do you think there’s enough opportunity right here in the States?

John Dobelbower  18:47

Yeah. So we have, we were actually founded back in Australia, believe it or not, back in 1980 So, okay, yeah. So we’re actually in 24 countries now. I lead the North American franchise developments of the United States, as well as Canada. And certainly, you know, our focus over the last several years has been the United States, because, to your point, we’ve got all these customers everywhere, but we need franchise owners to service all those customers, and so that’s really been our level of focus here lately. But, but certainly have an international exposure as well,

Karan Rhodes  19:19

Interesting. So, you know, I know you lead up your own small but mighty team over there, and I’m just curious, because you’ve had such diverse experience throughout your career, what is your approach to, you know, leading your teams, and what do you think is is key to building and sustaining high performing teams?

John Dobelbower  19:40

I think first and foremost, it’s having the right members on the bus, right because all that ties into the culture of the organization itself. If your team, I don’t care how productive your team is, if they don’t get along, that team is not going to be cohesive. You can’t go through explosive growth. So I think it’s making sure that you have the right players on the bus. I feel. Like we do. The second thing that we do is we input processes and systems in place right on the franchise development side. Because if you think about this, if you’re a prospective candidate and you’re wanting to do business with us, you want to see that we have those processes and systems in place for your business, which we’ve done, we’ve nailed that, right? We’ve been doing that for 26 years. I want to go through and make sure that we have those processes and systems in place for that evaluation process, right? You evaluating us. We evaluating you. I want to make sure that that streamlined, that’s very consistent across all members of my team, because I think that breeds success is having that process oriented thought process, while you’re going through the different stages of what it is that we do

Karan Rhodes  20:47

And for your I know you’re looking to expand, but do you all focus on city centers like a larger, medium to larger sized city, since there might Be more ongoing, reliable business there, or does that even matter?

John Dobelbower  21:03

It doesn’t matter as much as you would think. So. Obviously, we do have a presence in major metropolitan areas like Atlanta. We were talking offline about Atlanta. I think we have seven or eight locations in Atlanta now, and so certainly we get around metro areas. But what it’s really about is the business opportunities themselves. And so what we look for whenever we design a territory for our franchisees is we look, typically, somewhere between two and 3000 businesses by SIC code, or businesses that have a need for hydraulic and industrial hoses that we can get to within an hour, because we have that one hour eta, right? That’s how we design territories. It could be in a rural area, but that has heavy business, or it could be in a city center that’s, you know, densely populated, that also has heavy, heavy, you know, construction activity or whatever.

Karan Rhodes  21:57

No, that makes sense. I would anticipating that it’d be harder to get to the rural, more rural areas if there wasn’t a franchisee nearby. But it looks like you all have things mapped out where you could get to someone, and it doesn’t have to be just an urban center. So I think that your ability to expand like that is just amazing, absolutely amazing, I bet it has. So I’d love to hear your advice for anyone who’s considering being on the corporate side of the franchising effort, meaning being on your team if they were interested in helping a company expand their or have a role in helping to expand the to have more franchises, whether they’re in training or site selection or you name it. What advice can you give someone who is considering that some skills they need to make sure that they have

John Dobelbower  22:58

Well so for I’ll regurgitate one thing that a mentor told me a long time ago that really resonated with me, okay, if you know your why, you can endure any how. So you got to know why you’re doing what you’re doing. Why do you want to be on the team in the first place? Why do you want to be in this industry? But what impact is that going to have on your dreams and goals, on your needs, on your quality life requirements on everything that impacts you from a personal standpoint, because I’m a firm believer that if you’re aligned with your personal goals, and those personal goals align with your professional goals, and those professional goals align with the organizational goals, then everybody’s going to win. So so I think that first and foremost, it’s that right? But then obviously there’s skills that come into place there as well. So there’s an educational factor in franchising. I’m what they call a certified Franchise Executive. It’s just a designation. It’s kind of like a CPA for accountants, but you go through and learn the business of franchising, which is not the business of hydraulic hose and industrial hose repair. It’s completely different, right, right? I would encourage anyone that wants to enter into this business to understand that it’s it’s not about us, right at corporate, it’s really about the franchisees. And it’s really about, how do we support the franchise owners for their significant growth? Because as they grow, we grow, right? That’s a that’s a relationship in tandem, as opposed to a relationship that’s at odds, right?

Karan Rhodes  24:28

Right. Absolutely, absolutely. And forgive me for asking, but is the business model like typical franchises that get a percentage or royalties or or some percentage of revenues?

John Dobelbower  24:43

 We do, yeah. So our royalty is 4% so not a terrible amount, when you think about all the different support and training and marketing and everything else that we do for our franchisees, but there is a 4% royalty,

Karan Rhodes  24:57

Yes, but y’all aren’t selling bubblegum either. I mean. This is major services that you are providing, and I’m, I’m sure it helps you all to probably, you know, it’s significant enough to keep the your team and office running. It has to, to sustain the business. So that’s awesome. Oh, I had a question. It just slipped me my mind. What was that so curious minds want to know, what are some of the challenges or the dark sides of the business? Sure, yeah, that aren’t always talked about. Maybe give me one, one or two.

John Dobelbower  25:32

So I’ll tell you. A lot of people, when they invest in businesses, they treat this like it’s like a stock portfolio, right? Hey, I’m going to go through and invest in this business. I’m going to be passive. And the reality is, in small business ownership, passive is not a thing, right? Doesn’t work exactly. Now, I mean, we have what we call semi absentee owners. I didn’t even like that phrase, right? Because it has the word absentee in it. What I prefer is engaged investors, right? Meaning, hey, I’m going to invest in this business, but I’m also going to be engaged, not necessarily on the day to day, right, not necessarily managing the day to day, but having a finger on the pulse of that business on a day to day basis. Because the reality is perfect, could be the best business model in the world, and I’m pretty bullish on it, right? But if you’re not following the systems and you’re not engaged as an investor, that’s never going to work. And so part of our vetting process is determining that, but I have seen that before, right? And in previous roles with Yeah. I mean, people get into the business thinking, hey, this is just going to be easy. There’s nothing easy about small business ownership, franchising makes it easy. It’s still not easy

Karan Rhodes  26:44

At all. I can imagine that, and I would imagine if you don’t have a good, win, win partnership relationship, you know, doing that screening that you do up front and making sure that it’s right for the both of you, and that franchisee is not successful and starts bad mouthing. You all, it’s such a niche industry you don’t want your reputation tarnished, not that one person could tarnish, you know, all of pure tech. But I’m sure that due diligence reduces the instances of, you know, negative publicity or negative word of mouth?

John Dobelbower  27:21

Yeah, 100% outside looking in.

Karan Rhodes  27:23

 That’s what I see from the outside looking in.

John Dobelbower  27:25

Well, it’s kind of like dating, right? If we’re going to go through this problem, I’m learning about you, you’re going to learn about me at some point. We’re going to show our awards to each other, but we’re, hopefully, we’re going to do all that before we get married, right? Because once we’re each other, it’s, it’s a lot harder to break up a marriage than it is to break it up on the front end, right? And so we would rather go through that process on both sides and determine, hey, do we want to get married? And if so, what? What does that look like?

Karan Rhodes  27:52

Absolutely fascinating. Absolutely fascinating. Well, John, before we wrap up, you know, we couldn’t let you get out of here without answering our signature question for our guests. And as you know, my company did research on leadership execution and wrote a book about our findings and what have you. And out of that came seven big buckets or areas that are very important no matter what leadership effort you’re working on. And so we always ask our guests which one of the seven areas really pop for you, and you were so kind to share that leading with intrapreneurship really caught your eye. And for my new listeners out there, leading with intrapreneurship is all about building an organization by identifying new opportunities to develop or improve operations, products or services. So curious minds would love to know John, why did leading with intrapreneurship really resonate with you?

John Dobelbower  28:47

Well, I think part of it as an entrepreneur right going through and starting multiple businesses and successfully selling multiple businesses and then obviously helping hundreds of people on their path to entrepreneurship as well. I think that resonates with me. But I also see that if you take ownership of your role, right, if it’s in corporate America or whatever, but if you own that, as if you own, you know, a small business or any organization, and you lead with that mindset of, hey, this is mine. This is my baby. I don’t ever think that that’s going to be a bad thing, right? Because people are going to buy right? People are going to buy into that. They’re going to love you. They’re going to love your passion. They’re going to love your mission. Why it is that you’re doing what you’re doing? And I think ultimately that comes from a place of learning. Hey, how do we innovate? How do we change? How do we continue to grow? And so it really resonated with me, that question, so I’m glad you asked it for sure,

Karan Rhodes  29:50

Definitely, and in all my years in the human resources and leadership development space, I have yet to find a leader who was not interested. And learning about, you know, new ways to improve their you know, products, operations or services. They were always curious about that, and would always give a listen if it’s legitimate, if you’ve done your research, they wanted to hear about it. So it resonates with me as well. Absolutely, well done. Unfortunately, our time is wrapping up. You know, we’ll have all information about you, your background, your bio, information about pro tech in the show notes. But always love to give our guests bit of air time to share a little bit more on the you know podcast of where the listeners can find you all. So would you mind sharing where they can find out more information about per tech and yourself.

John Dobelbower  30:43

Yeah, so I mean a simple Google search. If you look up PIRTECH USA, we’re going to pop up you were interested in franchise ownership with us, it’d be PIRTECHUSAfranchise.com or you feel free to reach out to me, right? I’ll make sure to get my contact information. You can put in your show notes. I’d be happy to help answer any questions, and not just about franchise ownership, right? If you have a question about leadership, or how I view certain things, I’m more than happy to make myself available. I’ve had a lot of mentors in their life, in my life, kind of insert themselves into me, right, to help me grow. And so it’s certainly a passion project for me to do the same.

Karan Rhodes  31:23

Oh, that is so generous of you, John. I really appreciate it that paying it forward will really make a difference for someone you never know who’s listening out there they might just reach out and turn out to be the the next trillionaire that’s cured cancer you never know. So I love it. Well, we really thank you. Yeah, absolutely. Well, we thank you for the gift of your time, John, you’ve been way generous with your advice, your perspectives and your experience.

John Dobelbower  31:52

Thank you so much, Karan, for the opportunity, and I look forward to listening to this in future episodes.

Karan Rhodes  31:58

Oh, thank you. Absolutely. You’re fantastic. And thank you to listeners for the gift of your time as well. We know that there are literally millions of other podcasts you could be listening to, so we don’t take your patronage lightly. Please be sure to like and subscribe to the podcast, and all we ask is that you share with just one friend, because by doing so, we all can learn how to better lead at the top of our games. Thanks them so much, and see you next week. And that’s our show for today. Thank you for listening to the lead at the top of your game podcast, where we help you leave your seat at any employer, business or industry in which you choose to play. You can check out the show notes, additional episodes, bonus resources and also submit guest recommendations on our website, at lead your game podcast.com, you can follow me on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn by searching for the name Karan Rhodes, with Karan being spelled K, A, R, A, N, and if you like the show, the greatest gift you can give would be to SUBSCRIBE and leave a rating on your podcast. Platform of choice, this podcast has been a production of shockingly different leadership, a global consultancy which helps organizations execute their people, talent development and organizational effectiveness, initiatives on an on demand, project or contract basis. Huge thanks to our production and editing team for a job. Well done. Goodbye for now you.