Episode 107 | Leading with Guts, Grit and Savvy with Sam Rockaway

Sam Rockaway  00:00

So you don’t know about projects that are in people’s minds and they’re thinking about doing so you really is a relationship business. You really need to take a couple of years go out and meet a lot of people, build trust, build relationships, develop rapport with these folks, do some work for them, perform it impeccably well and stay in touch with them. And then, as they grow, you want young, strong entrepreneurs that are looking to grow their own business, they will call you back.

Voiceover  00:04

Welcome to the “Lead at the Top of Your Game” podcast, where we equip you to more effectively lead your seat at any employer, business, or industry in which you choose to play. Each week, we help you sharpen your leadership acumen by cracking open the playbooks of dynamic leaders who are doing big things in their professional endeavors. And now, your host, leadership tactics, and organizational development expert, Karan Ferrell-Rhodes.

Karan Rhodes  00:36

Hey there, my superstar. This is Karan, and welcome back to another episode of the lead at the top of your game podcast. We really have a fantastic guest on today’s show who’s going to talk to us a little bit about his role as a sales leader. And I won’t say an unusual industry, but one that US normally people probably don’t come across every single day, but we’re so happy to welcome Sam Rockaway, who is the Senior Vice President of Sales at REDCOM. And red comm is a design, build commercial construction firm that operates in New Jersey. And what really differentiates REDCOM is that they are essentially a one stop shop that can complete all aspects of a commercial or industrial project from beginning to end, and that includes site engineering, architectural services and general contracting. And number one, we want to learn more about the business of red comm. And then two, as an executive leader at the company, we’re wanting to learn more about what Sam faces on a day to day basis, and what are some of his challenges and his perspectives of leadership. So welcome to the show, Sam.

Sam Rockaway  01:53

Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having me. I’m excited to be here.

Karan Rhodes  01:56

Oh, we’re absolutely thrilled to have you as well. Definitely wanted to dig into red com, what you all do, and especially your role, because, you know, we’re really trying to focus on different approaches and how people think about leadership. But before we get into the nitty gritty, we always love to learn just a little bit more about our guests. So for just as much as you feel comfortable, would you mind giving us a sneak peek into your life outside of work.

Sam Rockaway  02:23

No, not at all. It’d be my pleasure. So I’m born at Sam Rockway. I’m born and raised in New Jersey, and living here my whole life. I just turned 60 last week. I’m excited the big six-o.

Karan Rhodes  02:33

Oh, couldn’t cafe with a lighted birthday.

Sam Rockaway  02:36

So I graduated high school in 1982 I enjoyed cars, so I got a job at a body shop. I went to school for body shop work, and then a few years later, I had an opportunity to rent a stall from somebody inside of a body shop. So I did that for a year, and then I ended up buying the shop from that person. So by the time I was 23 I owned a fairly large body shop. I really didn’t have much business. I didn’t have any employees. It was just myself, and I had to figure out how to get employees, and I had to figure out, well, more importantly, how to figure out how to get work into the place, and then as I was doing them, so it all worked out as I was running my body shop and operating it. You know, about five years into it, I started to attend classes at the local county college. And before you know it, four years later, I was at a crossroads where I had to make a decision if I wanted to pursue a degree or stay in the Body Shop world. And I chose to pursue a degree. So I sold my body shop. I got a degree. I ended up with a degree in accounting, and took a job at Johnson and Johnson and their financial leadership development program, which was a huge transition from a body shop to J and J,

Karan Rhodes  03:47

I bet

Sam Rockaway  03:48

Two weeks before I was supposed to start at J and J, they called me and said, Hey, how would you like to work an audit? I didn’t know, so I said, Sure, be great. So as an auditor, I traveled to their operating companies around the world. I’ve been to 40 countries. I visited all a lot of their operating companies. Met with a lot of top executives, and that’s really where I opened my eyes to a world and to opportunity and to see how other businesses ran, besides a body shop. And I was traveling extensively around the world, and I was married, and my wife was going to give birth to our son, so I wanted to change. I didn’t want to do that forever. So I went to pharmacea. Pharmacy was also a pharmaceutical company, but less travel, and I was there for about six months, and Pfizer had acquired the company, and 911 had happened at the same time. Oh yeah, and I said, No more travel for Sam, right? Took the buyout and took a year off, and said, What am I going to do? So I went and bought another shop, and I started servicing car dealerships, because what I knew how to do, and that’s how I met the owner of REDCOM. And then the same day I met him, he asked me. If I wanted to come work for him, I said, I don’t know anything about construction. Why would you ask me that question? And so five years later, I joined red com. My only regret is I should have said yes that day. It’s a great opportunity here, and here we are today. I’ve been selling for Greg in this role for 14 years, give or take a year, and I’ve been selling for him for 18 years. So red Comm, I have a lot of clients with red Comm, and it’s been a great roller coaster.

Karan Rhodes  05:28

A great run for you. You know, when I was reading your your background and your information, it just absolutely floored me that you hadn’t been in that world before taking on the role. So you had a double whammy to deal with, number one kind of learning the industry and the core business and that while at the same time trying to bring in sales as well. And if I remember correctly, I believe you said you were on a commission only structure. Is that correct?

Sam Rockaway  05:56

Yeah, when I first joined REDCOM, I was a commission only structure. So I did get a draw. I got a salary to cover my expenses, and at the end of the year we had to reconcile right and to the sales cycle, here is two years. So the first year was not very good, the second year was better. And then after the third and fourth year, when Greg, the owner, saw me really bringing in deals, things changed, and he had confidence that I was going to get it done. So it was very challenging for the first few years here. Can’t give up. I have kids and a wife and a house and just there’s no other option but to succeed

Karan Rhodes  06:30

Absolutely. And look you live to tell the story and look at you now,

Sam Rockaway  06:35

yeah

Karan Rhodes  06:35

Well, let’s take a step back a little bit, and do you mind telling us just a little bit more about commercial design and construction and exactly what your role encompasses as the head of sales.

Sam Rockaway  06:51

Right. Sure. So commercial construction is a broad term in this industry. It’s kind of saying like I’m looking for an automobile, right? You got Toyotas, Hondas, General Motors, pickup trucks, cars, vans, you have everything. So commercial construction is kind of like that same bucket. So at Red con, we specialize in designing and building car dealerships, industrial buildings and then commercial projects. So but sports facilities, strip malls, projects that are about 50 to 80,000 square feet in size, wow, less than $30 million if you want to put a number on it, because commercial projects. One Vanderbilt in New York City is a commercial project, right? Yeah. So that’s our sweet spot. And we do have in house site civil engineering, we do have in house architecture, and we do have in house construction. So if someone’s looking to purchase a piece of property, we could look at that property very quickly, tell them what the buildable yields are, what the site constraints are, what the zoning constraints are, and then also design real basic schematic on the site for them and give them an approximate number within A couple of days we can get this done. So it helps people that are looking to purchase property in the very early stages, which is a critical part for most buyers.

Karan Rhodes  08:09

Oh, absolutely. And as sales, how do you stay on top of what’s coming? Because I’m sure by the time it’s announced in the newspapers or online sales cycle is past you for people that are wanting to help build so who do you target and who do you network with to kind of get a heads up about who bought properties and who’s about ready to engage with a firm like yours?

Sam Rockaway  08:36

That’s a really good question you just asked. It’s spot on. So you don’t know about projects that are in people’s minds and they’re thinking about doing so you really is a relationship business. You really need to take a couple of years go out and meet a lot of people, build trust, build relationships, develop rapport with these folks, do some work for them, perform it impeccably well and stay in touch with them. And then, as they grow, you want young, strong entrepreneurs that are looking to grow their own business, they will call you back. So, for example, today, we had built an infinity store for a dealer in North Jersey. Four or five years ago, I see him every year. I talk to him. I golf with him once in a while, and he called me today to say that he just purchased a Genesis point. Dealerships are referred to as points in my or shingles, shingles, or points the Genesis point. And he asked if he could put my name down as the architect, engineer and builder for Genesis. Wow, that’s how it happens, but it took me 10 years to get to that point with him.

Karan Rhodes  09:47

Wow. So, it is all about relationships, then,

Sam Rockaway  09:52

Yes, it really is. in

Karan Rhodes  09:53

And referrals. Wow, amazing.

Sam Rockaway  09:55

You could bid projects regularly, but that’s not the same thing as designing and building.

Karan Rhodes  10:00

And have you all at REDCOM found it challenging to be kind of that end to end solution for your clients, versus maybe specializing in just one aspect.

Sam Rockaway  10:14

No, because I think at the end of the day, a client who hires an engineer to do a site plan or an architect to do drawings, they have the end game in mind, and the end game is the building. So if we can tell that customer of ours at a very early stage, say when they’re in their due diligence of acquiring their land, approximately how much the project’s going to cost, a rough idea of the schedule, they can make a decision early on if they’re going to move forward. And I treat each stage of my cycle as an independent contract. So you sign up for site plan approval. If you’re not happy with us, you could leave anytime. And if you are happy, sign up for the architecturals. And then again, if you’re not happy, I’ll finish your drawings and you can leave. And if you are happy, then here’s the construction, and you can sign this contract and go to that step. Building, a building for someone is a huge commitment. Both parties and the builder needs to be engaged for the long term, because something’s going to go wrong with the building in the next five or 10 years, and you need to be there for them too.

Karan Rhodes  11:25

Always. And I think that brings and I don’t know if that’s different than other firms similar to yours, but if I were in the buyer shoes, that would bring some level of comfort that I could start with you and see how we connect and work together before I put out a huge contract of an expenditure out there. And for you, doing it in stages, if you’re doing great in the first stage, why would they go to anybody else for the rest of the stages?

Sam Rockaway  11:54

Our close ratio once they sign up a site plan approval is like 95% and that’s really not me, that’s me, sure, bringing the lead in, forming the relationship, but it’s really my team. It’s the engineers and the project managers and architects that do the great job. And without the rest of my team, I’m just one guy trying to put a deal together.

Karan Rhodes  12:16

Absolutely. Now, are you the only person in the sales organization, or do you have a small group of sales teams as well?

Sam Rockaway  12:25

I have two other sales people. I have an assistant, and I have a, I don’t know what a title is. She’s an MBA. So every deal that we do requires a lot of finance and a lot of calculations and so forth. So I needed a right person on my team?

Karan Rhodes  12:41

Oh, absolutely. The dollars you all are talking Absolutely.

Sam Rockaway  12:44

So she does a little customer service and all our financial analysis and calculations and contracts.

Karan Rhodes  12:50

Wow. What is the hardest aspect of your role? What kind of keeps you up at night?

Sam Rockaway  12:56

Meeting the customer’s expectations? It’s off to me at the end of the day without a customer, there’s no red com. There’s nothing else. So if I am out there selling or trying to convince someone to use red com, I personally feel that I’ve committed myself to the deal. And if I say we’re going to get this done in nine months, then we’re going to do this that keeps me up at night. If we’re not going to hit that deadline. I can understand that. Yeah, that’s what it is that really keeps me awake at night.

Karan Rhodes  13:25

And do you have any advice for sales professionals or sales leaders like yourself, who are moving into an industry that has an extremely long sales cycle? Do you have any advice to them about how they can stay resilient, because with you, and there’s all you know, almost a two year sales cycle that mean you got to get going because other revenue is not coming in unless you keep a lot of things in the in the funnel, or a lot of relationships in the hopper. But what advice do you have to those who are having to carry a bag of quota requirements, but there’s a hugely long sales cycle.

Sam Rockaway  14:04

Well, I would say, don’t give up too easily. It works. You just gotta have confidence in yourself. You gotta believe in what you do. You gotta be passionate about what you do. But at the end of the day, you can’t give up so easily. You gotta be persistently polite and stay with them.

Karan Rhodes  14:21

Stay with them for the long haul, huh?

Sam Rockaway  14:22

Stay with them for the long haul. You’re going to lose some deal. And you know, and always do the right thing. So I always do the right thing, even if it means I’m not going to get the sale. I always do the right thing for the customer.

Karan Rhodes  14:33

Me too, because I have to sleep well at night, and I don’t if I’m not, I have a high I consider myself having a high degree of integrity, and it just doesn’t sit well with me if I’m not serving others. So so thank you for sharing that you’ve had quite a career that has gone in different directions, but all it sounds like you’ve learned lessons to build up to the leader that you are today. And. I’m curious what, maybe skills and habits that are critical for you to make sure that that you’re able to lead at the top of your game, if you will.

Sam Rockaway  15:11

So when I worked at Johnson, and Johnson and I was an auditor there, I was just out of college, and I was an auditor, and I was, you’re given an area you know, fixed assets, cash inventory, whatever it might be. And if you find an issue which is an issue is not a good thing, and you have to write the issue up. And then whoever finds the issue has to go to the company President and CFO and explain the issue to him and get buy in and buy in two options, we agree and we’ll implement or we disagree, and if they disagreed with the comment, the report would go to the CEO of Johnson and Johnson, Oh, wow. And no one wants the report to go to their boss, right? And they’re not good. So after years of doing that, that is difficult sell. I said to myself, if I could get buy in from these people on these reports, I could get people to buy something that they want to buy, and the train along the way at J and J that gave me a lot of training, a lot of confidence, and I think I just still use what I learned back at Johnson and Johnson here.

Karan Rhodes  16:20

Because you you hone some important skill selling skills, but they were easily transferable to the new industry you’re in. Is that correct?

Sam Rockaway  16:28

Yeah,

Karan Rhodes  16:29

Yeah, well, and in general, what is your leadership philosophy as you collaborate with both your peers and your team?

Sam Rockaway  16:38

I try to lead by example. So I like to roll up my sleeves and dig in and try to put deals together. Go to networking events. I do all the sales 101, things an intern would do, and I do them just with being a senior vice president. I do the same thing. So I try to encourage my team to follow my lead and give them the support that they need.

Karan Rhodes  17:00

And, you know, don’t want to know any IP or anything like that. But what types of tools do you use as a sales leader that kind of help with all those tasks that occur in a sales process?

Sam Rockaway  17:13

So we have a system that tracks deadlines and dates. We have a CRM as well, as well. That’s our two main tools. We have a good marketing department, so when I say marketing, we keep a good, detailed log of the projects that we’ve completed, and we share them with prospects and clients. And I also encourage the people that are thinking about using red comm to go meet with the customers we’ve built with already. Good point, I drive them to be with them. I literally put them in my car and say, I’ll set the appointment up and drive them there and let them go talk for however long they want to talk.

Karan Rhodes  17:52

Those are your best sales secrets right there, right your satisfied customers,

Sam Rockaway  17:55

It either goes really well or really bad. So,

Karan Rhodes  17:59

But, knowing you, though, Sam, I bet it goes really well, because it seems like you have really great relationships with your client.

Sam Rockaway  18:08

Yeah, it works out. But I’m always anxious when I introduce a prospect to a customer.

Karan Rhodes  18:13

Yeah, of course. So I’m curious is, does REDCOM only operate in New Jersey, or do you go outside the state.

Sam Rockaway  18:21

 So we have gone out of the state. We’ve built a number of projects in New York, Delaware, Maryland, Connecticut and Pennsylvania, but they all worked out well the projects, but it’s very difficult when there’s an issue later on. So a couple years later, if something goes wrong with the building, it’s hard to find people to maintain it and take care of it. So we decided to not go outside of New Jersey any longer, so we generally just work in New Jersey. Now, gotcha, if I’m not saying that one or two customers asked us to build something a reasonable distance away, we would probably do it, but they’d have to be an existing client. We’d have to know who they are before you got involved, because it’s really a disservice to the client, at least that’s our opinion.

Karan Rhodes  19:04

Oh yeah, especially if there’s something hands on that you’ll need to go and see. It does make a lot more sense for you to keep it more contained. Unless you don’t have enough business to keep your our clients that keep your business sustainable, then that’s one that you can get to risk.

Sam Rockaway  19:23

There are competitors of ours that do travel around the country and offer similar services to what we do and we live it’s New Jersey. It’s right next to New York. If we can’t get enough business in this area, we’re in the wrong business,

Karan Rhodes  19:40

You’re telling me the Northeast is one of my favorite places to visit. You know, I’m in Atlanta, and in the south, we go a little bit slower than New York, but can’t deal with the snow. That was the only thing. But it’s a great place to hang out and visit. And you’re right being in New Jersey, you’re right next door, you know? To some major metropolitan areas to say the least. So yeah, around here, I’m also curious about health and if technology has touched your business, your industry yet, because I, in general, don’t think you know, everybody’s talking about AI this, AI that, but I, from a lay person’s perspective, I’m not sure how technology advancements really help or hinder your industry. So I’m curious on is it still kind of the run of the mill industry, or has technology really changed the way you work?

Sam Rockaway  20:38

No, technology has definitely changed the way we work. And I could give you a few examples.

Karan Rhodes  20:44

Sure.

Sam Rockaway  20:45

So for surveys of sites, one of the first things you do if someone’s thinking about acquiring a site and they’re under due diligence period is you need a survey

Karan Rhodes  20:53

Right.

Sam Rockaway  20:54

Of the property, and depending on the season, right. So in the colder months, it works well. You could do surveys by by air. So plane will fly by and do a survey. So that technology didn’t exist when I first started in this business, the other and measuring buildings from, say, a Google Earth. You could also their software that allows us to do that, so we don’t have to run out and get this, you know, physically measured building. We could do it from our desktop. We could look at wetlands from our desktop. So that’s a big time saver. And then on the architectural side of it, if there’s an existing building and you need to renovate it in any way, an addition or renovation, you need to have what’s called existing conditions of that building. Existing conditions are essentially just the measurements of the building. So we used to do it where two people would go with a tape measure and a wheel and walk around 100,000 square foot building.

Karan Rhodes  21:48

So you all were those people that had those big wheels that were right,

Sam Rockaway  21:52

Yeah, we have the big wheel. We’d walk down and put it would take days to measure this building. Now I don’t use this device, but our architects, do they have a it looks it’s on a tripod, almost like a surveying tool, and they put it in the building, and it takes a photograph, a 3d image of everything in the building, really the exit signs, the fire sprinklers, the lights, the locations, and gives you dimensions and locations and measurements for everything. So when the architect comes back and they need to implement or update the CAD file with those dimensions, it just uploads automatically. And if they have any questions about the building, then they can go back to the 3d rendering that was completed and look at any aspect of the building to clarify a question they may have. Same with the estimators, fantastic tool.

Karan Rhodes  22:46

Well, technology is reaching, or has reached, every corner of our lives and work, I must say, and it seems like it’s going to continue to do so, you know, as long as we’re living I’m also curious, Sam, where do you see the industry going in the future? Do you think it will be continuing to be pretty stable, or do you think it could be disrupted in any kind of way?

Sam Rockaway  23:10

Well,, it’s we’re going through some challenges right now because the interest rates are high.

Karan Rhodes  23:14

Yeah, I was about to ask you about right

Sam Rockaway  23:16

When the interest rates are high, a lot of the deals you might hear of term called, they don’t pencil. So it’s really interest rates impact our business significantly. When there’s higher rates, the deals and then the rents. You know, the all of these deals are based on the rent per square foot and how long it’s going to take to pay off the building based on a square foot rent number the higher interest rate, it takes more time, yeah, within five to 10 years, it should be paid off when somebody’s went, you know, a three or 4% interest, it should work out in five to seven years. When it starts going over 10 years, the payback period is not it doesn’t meet the investors expectations, and a lot of times they’ll wait, yeah, that really impacts the business. And then I think construction overall is becoming more of a commodity than a value add service, really. Why do you think say that in the last six years, there’s been so much development from the Amazons because of the internet business that not anyone, but there’s been so much development, millions and millions of square feet, that the profit margin of, say, six or 7% historically, now, you know, two to 3% and there’s seven or eight bidders bidding on the same project for two or 3% where six, you know, 10 years ago, no one would have even looked at it right so, and I think the REITs and the developers themselves are also in tune with that, and they understand construction because, let’s construction is expensive, expensive for

Karan Rhodes  24:51

Capital intensive, huh,

Sam Rockaway  24:53

Right. And profit margins aren’t the profit margins. Margins are not that significant. You know, if we could walk away with. 5% at the end of the year, that’s a great year. And that’s not a lot of growth, if you

Karan Rhodes  25:04

That’s not Wow, that’s a lot of pressure to perform with a lot of economic factors that kind of control that are out of your control.

Sam Rockaway  25:15

There’s a lot of things out of our control. So I think the fact that we have engineering that’s a service that we could sell and provide to people and get paid for and architectural it’s the same. We could independently do that, and we could build buildings. And I think if you do a good job for the for the folks that are hiring you when they’re ready to build again, and they usually do, they will call you, but you need to have a team that does dots all the I’s and crosses all the T’s and put the customer first.

Karan Rhodes  25:46

It’s always important putting that customer first. Wow, well, I wish you kudos for all the great growth that you’ve been able to witness and help red come achieve. It sounds like you have a fantastic team, both directly that you oversee, as well as the other leaders within the company that you work with. So huge, huge congratulations on that.

Sam Rockaway  26:10

Thank you very much.

Karan Rhodes  26:11

And although we’re it’s about time to start wrapping up. We cannot let you get out of here, Sam without asking your signature question that we asked our guests. As you know, my firm did research on leadership execution and wrote a whole book on our findings. And out of that came seven, what we call tactics, but they’re like kind of bucket areas that are critical when anyone leads any kind of effort, whether they’re individual contributor or pupil leader, and so you were so kind to share that leading with courageous agility was one of the ones that really resonated with you, right? And so for my newer listeners out there, just so you know, courageous agility is all about having the courage and the fortitude to, you know, take calculated risk and still take baby steps forward even if the future is uncertain or unclear. It’s all about having that resiliency to move forward try to achieve things, even if you’re not quite sure what all is going to happen at the end of the day. And so Sam, curious minds want to know why did courageous agility really resonate with you.

Sam Rockaway  27:21

I think it’s because of what we do here at Red comm. We buy land. We buy raw unapproved land, and there’s a huge risk when you buy unapproved land, because you need to get it approved. You need to get it through the process in New Jersey, which is a two year process, and it doesn’t always work, and when it doesn’t work, you still have the land. So you have to be able to switch gears if you realize it’s not going to work. Really, you have to be able to pivot to a new use for that particular land that’ll still meet all your financial requirements. And we do that on a regular basis. And for example, I have 40 acres of land that we bought seven years ago that is still tied up in an approval process. It’s gonna work out, but we had to pivot a couple of times. And so that’s what I would say.

Karan Rhodes  28:13

Well, if there’s anything I can say about your industry is definitely not for the faint of heart. Let’s you’re a trillionaire and can afford all that, but, you know, not ultimately having to invest first without ultimately knowing if it’s going to move forward is is just an interesting dynamic in that industry. And you got to have nerves of steel from the outsider looking in from me, to be able to, you know, trust that you’re, you know, counting on your data. You’re counting on your people, and that more will come through than not

Sam Rockaway  28:50

Surround yourself with smart people and really rely on your data.  Absolutely, you’ve got to do that. That is a essential component.  Yep.

Karan Rhodes  28:53

Well, Sam, we are going to have a ton of information about you, your bio and everything in our show notes, but I always love to give our guests a little bit of air time to share where our listeners can look up either you or the company. So would you mind sharing? Maybe where they can find you all?

Sam Rockaway  29:19

On LinkedIn, they could always look at me on LinkedIn is Sam Rockaway, and then REDCOM design and construction is the name of our firm. And you could go to our website and get all the information you want, and feel free there’s my emails on their website. If you you could reach out to me. And however.

Karan Rhodes  29:37

How wonderful, wonderful. Well, Sam, we really appreciate the gift of your time as well. We know you are a very, very busy leader, but we thank you for spending a little time with us to sharing a bit of your story about you, your career, how you operate as a leader. I was taking notes while you were talking. Kean, and we have quite a few things to share in our show notes as well, but thank you for coming on the podcast today.

Sam Rockaway  30:07

That’s great. Thank you for having me. I was excited to be here. It’s exciting. So thanks for the opportunity.

Karan Rhodes  30:12

Absolutely and listeners, thank you as well for joining this episode. As I always say, we know there are literally millions of other podcasts out there, and we do not take your patronage lightly. All that we ask is you please like and subscribe the podcast, and please just share it with just one friend, because by doing so, we can all learn how to better lead at the top of our games. Thanks so much, and see you next week. And that’s our show for today. Thank you for listening to the lead at the top of your game podcast, where we help you leave your seat at any employer, business or industry in which you choose to play. You can check out the show notes, additional episodes, bonus resources, and also submit guest recommendations on our website, at leadyourgamepodcast.com, you can follow me on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn by searching for the name Karan Rhodes, with Karan being spelled K, A, R, A N, and if you like the show, the greatest gift you can give would be to subscribe and leave a rating on your podcast platform of choice. This podcast has been a production of Shockingly Different Leadership a global consultancy which helps organizations execute their people, talent development and organizational effectiveness initiatives on an on demand, project or contract basis. Huge thanks to our production and editing team for a job well done. Goodbye for now.