Episode 110 | Ditching Your Title to Better Champion Leadership with Thomas Barnette

Thomas Barnette  00:00

So the idea that anyone is working for you, I think, needs to go away. People are working for themselves. They’re working for the betterment of their lives and let them have ownership. That’s where the empowerment comes in. So I would want to get rid of the idea that leaders are titles, and really give them the tools to help them connect to themselves. There’s three aspects. How do you see yourself? How do you connect to yourself? How do you see and connect to other people? And then, How do other people see and connect to you?

Voiceover  00:05

Welcome to the “Lead at the Top of Your Game” podcast, where we equip you to more effectively lead your seat at any employer, business, or industry in which you choose to play. Each week, we help you sharpen your leadership acumen by cracking open the playbooks of dynamic leaders who are doing big things in their professional endeavors. And now, your host, leadership tactics, and organizational development expert, Karan Ferrell-Rhodes.

Karan Rhodes  00:36

Hello, my superstars. This is Karan, and welcome back to another episode of the lead at the top of your game podcast. We are so pleased to have on today’s show a very dear friend of mine, Thomas Barnett, who is the CEO and CO and founder, I’m sorry not co founder, CEO and founder of Impaxion Consulting, and I’m gonna let him talk about it in just a moment, but just to give you a taste, it’s a human capital firm that offers a variety of strategic human capital interventions and consulting for companies of all sizes. And some things that they offer are like executive coaching, leadership development, dei consulting. He also is a fabulous keynote speaker. I know when you all listen to him, you’re going to be wanting to find him on LinkedIn and reach out, because he is just tremendous. But he is well renowned in especially the leadership and facilitator communities of which, of course, I try to thrive and know who are the big players there. But he’s had many, many clients that are renowned that you may know, such as the Bear Corporation, Meta, General Electric, and United Airlines, amongst a very few. And because we are friends, I can personally vouch that he is the real deal on so many levels, as you’re about to find out. But I can’t wait for Thomas to share with us some of his perspectives on leadership development and actually leadership execution, you know, functioning in the best way and showing up as your best self in order to impact positive change and influence so welcome to the show, Thomas,

Thomas Barnette  02:24

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Karan. And you said earlier, where you try to thrive in leadership development, you’re not trying. You’re doing it. Okay, so there’s no trying. You’re doing it.

Karan Rhodes  02:36

There’s no trying in leadership development…

Thomas Barnette  02:38

You are doing it. I’m trying to be more like you.

Karan Rhodes  02:42

Oh, you’re so sweet. I’m trying to keep up with you. But yeah, they’re honest, right?

Thomas Barnette  02:48

Exactly, exactly.

Karan Rhodes  02:50

Well that is fantastic. Well, before we get started, as you know, we always love to learn just a little bit more about our gifts. So for as much as you feel comfortable, would you mind giving our listeners just a sneak peek into your life outside of work?

Thomas Barnette  03:06

Absolutely. Well, as you know, I am originally from Fort Valley, Georgia, which is not far from where you grew up, as well. We’re both good old country folks. So my mother was a music and English teacher. She had her Masters in music from Fort Valley State University. So my three older sisters and I were required to sing play piano and one other instrument. So I started singing when I was four years old, rolling around on the floor during choir rehearsal while my mother was playing the piano for the choir. I started playing piano when I was probably seven or eight, trumpet when I was maybe 10, and so music has been a huge part of my life. I actually wrote and recorded an album, and I know I my actually find the album under my name on iTunes and on YouTube. So yeah, things out there, and I love singing. I’ve coached many people in performance and singing, been a vocal coach. In addition to coaching executives, I’ve worked with them on how to speak, how to project their voices, the rise and fall, a lot of the things that people aren’t taught when it comes to being able to utilize their voices. I’ve been able to do that from my singing and vocal coaching as well. So you know, and I love to perform. I actually was one of the performers as a dancer, because I also have a dance background. You didn’t know that either. During the Olympic opening ceremonies in 1996

Karan Rhodes  04:52

Wow!

Thomas Barnette  04:52

I held some things in my pocket there to share with you all today.

Karan Rhodes  04:56

You did! You pulled that one out on me! Oh, that’s fantastic. Day, you know, be like going back and looking pictures, looking to find you wonderful. What a well rounded life you have, because that was, that was one you snuck up in on me. But you have so many activities and adventures that you do, and it’s just so admirable.

Thomas Barnette  05:22

Thank you.

Karan Rhodes  05:23

Definitely, after this podcast, we’re gonna have to huddle.

Thomas Barnette  05:25

Look. I tell you, I’m a product of my mother, Susie Pearl. Who, you know,

Karan Rhodes  05:32

Susie Pearl.

Thomas Barnette  05:32

Good old Susie Pearl, she my mother passed away in March 20 of 2020. She was 91 so she was 39 when she had me, wow. So I grew up, you know, with her and a lot of who I am as a person, and what I do was a reflection of what she wanted to make sure that all of her children and all of the children she taught had that kind of larger perspective of who you are, what you’re capable of doing, and just do your best. And so I got that from her without a doubt.

Karan Rhodes  06:02

Excellent job, because

Thomas Barnette  06:03

Thank you

Karan Rhodes  06:04

you’re absolutely amazing. She’s so proud. I know yes from above now, but I know she was so proud of you, watching you over the years. So yeah, kudos to you, Thomas. And it’s hard to pull one over on me, but you got me on that one. Oh…well, let’s kind of transition a little bit and maybe if you can give us just a high level overview of your the big moments in your career thus far, and then follow up by sharing more with us about what compelled you to found impaction and the title, and what kinds of work and services do you all offer?

Thomas Barnette  06:46

Okay. So, yeah, my journey has always been around people. What is their purpose and the process to achieve that purpose, those have always been, you know, I call it, you know, the three P’s and and my passion has always been connected to that. I’ve always wanted to be a person that had an impact, a positive impact, in people’s lives, and give them knowledge, or information, disseminate it to them in a way that they use it, so not just hear it, but actually do something about it. Have a desire to do something about it, and then give them the skills to practice doing something about it. Nice. I will go back to when I was in, you know, elementary school, and I wanted a band, and so I taught my cousins how to play instruments before we were even, we were in the band, so that I could have my own band,

Karan Rhodes  07:45

Lookt at you! Making your own reality, right? Recruiting family members…

Thomas Barnette  07:50

Yeah, like fourth, fifth grade, sixth grade. So it’s always been a part of me, and as I went to college and majored in industrial engineering, it is still the same thing when you look at how to create environments where people can be more successful or more efficient in the work that they do. And a part of that too, for me was also how can people do their best work through efficiencies, but also through processes. So I’ve always had that analytical side, but I’ve also had a very creative side as well, and blending those two together is what led me into leadership development, employee engagement. And in the 90s, when I first started working, really, when we were first thinking about inclusion and how to really put that at the forefront leadership and conversations and and hiring practices and who’s getting promoted. I grew up in a household full of women because my father died when I was six months old, so speaking up for women in the workplace was easy. When people would say, Can we put a certain person who was a female who had just gotten married on a project? And I was like, you can’t say that,  Right? That’s not right. In the 90s, you know? Well, is she gonna have a baby soon? Those kinds of conversations really happening. In my presence.

Karan Rhodes  09:11

You may not realize it, but they really do have did happen in in some places, they are still happening. Unfortunately.

Thomas Barnette  09:18

They’re still happening. And I know that too, because someone shared a story with me recently of that same conversation, and it through I was like, Are you kidding me? We’re still having these same conversations that we were having in the 90s. So I’ve always been a champion for people who had unique abilities and qualities and characteristics and women in general, and then for anyone else that wasn’t getting the representation that they deserved. So when it came to dei work, that was a very natural progression for me, along with leadership development, because really great leadership is. Understanding how to put those principles into action

Karan Rhodes  10:03

Absolutely.

Thomas Barnette  10:04

And so it’s all worked well, beautifully for me, and then coaching as a part of it, to help people dial into where they have gaps in their leadership ability. So really being able to look at them individually, meet them where they are, create that safe space and give them an opportunity to learn and practice without judgment. That’s what I think really helps leaders to develop into more than just the title. And so your last question about impaction, which is spelled E, M, P, A, X, i, o, n, I knew that God wanted me to do something to connect other people to an idea that we could all work in and thrive from together. So this isn’t me. This was God. So one day I was running on the treadmill, about five years ago, before my mother passed, I was like, What is this name that you want me to use for this business? And as I was running, I was thinking about, well, what are the words that are important? Well, compassion, empathy, impact, you know, all of it. And I heard God say impaction, and spelled it. And as I’m running, I had to pull up my phone and stop the treadmill and spell it away. Yes, yeah, I did. When I saw it, I knew that was it. So it is about empathy, compassion and empowerment of all people in the workplace and in their lives. That’s what impaction represents.

Karan Rhodes  11:27

And I know you offer a variety of offerings and services based on where the clients are, but do you mostly cater to companies and businesses or individuals?

Thomas Barnette  11:39

Both really, because I believe that you have to be able to focus on both people are still people. A lot of work has been done to create space, but then there’s been a lot of work where that space hasn’t been recognized or understood or respected or valued, and a lot of times it’s individuals who aren’t connected to what it is that they should know. So I love working with individuals. I love working with companies large or small, and I love working with individuals within the company to help them align to the mission and the vision of the organization. Many times, when they look at their mission and vision statements, the words are there. They just forget them, or they don’t know how to put them into practice, right? So, if you can start with leadership and with some employees, depending on where they are and their ability to have influence, all of its, you know, important to me, absolutely impaction. It was created to help bring levels of other people that can also have their passion to do this work, to understand it, to connect with it. Because I can’t do it all, and I don’t want to,

Karan Rhodes  12:53

But they all need your services there. I know you can’t do it all.

Thomas Barnette  12:57

And connecting with you and your organization, and being able to have that connection, because we work, we are all working with each other, at least we should be

Karan Rhodes  13:09

Absolutely,

Thomas Barnette  13:11

Yeah,

Karan Rhodes  13:11

You know, I’m curious, Thomas, you know, maybe in the if you look over the trends, over the past, I don’t know 12 to 18 to 24 months, if there was a leadership development Genie like Aladdin and the genie lamp, and you had one wish that you would want all companies to be able to do or adopt, or a piece of advice for them that They had to get done. What would that one wish be? What is missing in today’s workplace as it relates to leadership development? I know there’s many, but if you had one, what would it be?

Thomas Barnette  13:51

I would say what I’m trying to find the words to say the thought in my head, okay, idea. It’s a fact, because that’s how people have operated. So when you know better, you do better. Leaders are not a title. It may be a title, but we’ve got to stop separating working with people from the idea that, because we are working with them, if you’re a leader, you’re working with people, no one is working for you. So the idea that anyone is working for you, I think, needs to go away. People are working for themselves. They’re working for the betterment of their lives and let them have ownership. That’s where the empowerment comes in. So I would want to get rid of the idea that leaders are titles, and really give them the tools to help them connect to themselves. There’s three aspects. How do you see yourself? How do you connect to yourself? How do you see and connect to other people? And then, How do other people see and connect to you? So bringing that to the forefront of leaders, how. Bring them to be coaches and mentors for their team, depending on what people need, so that the title doesn’t get in the way of their ability to work human to human. The title is just a level of responsibility that they bring to their job, whatever it is that they’ve been laid out to do their responsibility, but their responsibility and from that place leaders are all of those things and give them support. In order to do that, they can’t just do it alone. They need the support within their organization and outside of their organization. As a coach, that’s one of the things that I can help them do. Is they need a place to vet too. They need a coach and a mentor. This idea becomes so much more of where we’re all operating within the same concept and levels, rather than these separated ideas of who we are. I think that’s the one thing that I would want to change.

Karan Rhodes  16:04

I love that. You know, that’s one of the reasons why my firm did the research study on leadership execution. Because what you exactly shared just a few minutes ago, this has been a quagmire of companies for probably 100 years, right? And they still haven’t cracked the code on it. And I had a hint or inclination when we commissioned the study, but the study proved just what you’re saying, that it’s not just enough to just do skill development, they also need the support, and that’s the missing piece that a lot of companies miss out on, is providing the right type and adequate support for leaders at all levels to perform at their best, and they just haven’t been able to figure out how to do that. Are you seeing the same thing, or am I just…

Thomas Barnette  16:59

With no, without a doubt, yes to answer your question. No, you’re not missing the mark. Yes, I am seeing the exact same thing. Just had a conversation a month ago with a company who said that they were struggling to get people to step up into leadership positions for that very reason, because they didn’t see the leaders being having the support they needed to be great leaders. And they thought, well, I don’t want that though. I don’t even care about the money, the headache. So they’re missing great opportunities because they don’t have enough support for the leaders to be the kinds of leaders that they need to be that was brought up in our meeting directly by them.

Karan Rhodes  17:45

 Wow,

Thomas Barnette  17:46

Yeah.

Karan Rhodes  17:47

Well, I know you had a plethora of offerings and advice to give them. We won’t go into that, but they had the right one in the meeting to share.

Thomas Barnette  17:58

Yes.

Karan Rhodes  17:59

So in your opinion? Well, you know what? I love to hear your philosophy. Thomas on leadership as how you personally, I know what you try to help other companies do, and it might be the same thing, but when you are a leader of any effort, how do you think about it and approach it? And what are maybe one or two tips that you can give to the listeners when they find themselves in that situation.

Thomas Barnette  18:26

I’ve, you know, done a lot of work to understand who I am as an individual. And I think for people that are new to leadership roles, or who may be new, you know, to the work environment and new to a role. I think it’s always a learning process what worked for me early on, when I became a supervisor six months after I was hired with McMaster Karan, one of the individuals on my team had been working for the company for over 20 years, and I took her into a conference room, and I said, Let’s be very clear, lady, I am not your boss. I am not your boss, and I need you in order to be able to be an effective leader. And from that moment on, we were like this,

Karan Rhodes  19:18

So how did you know to say that, Thomas?

Thomas Barnette  19:20

My mother, I don’t know, it was, seriously!

Karan Rhodes  19:25

See, that’s when people struggle like you were able to have a great family support system and friend support system. But there’s a lot of folks, individuals out there that don’t have that and don’t have that courage and self awareness to be able to say that comfortably with someone, because that right there open up the doors of a building of a what sounds like a fantastic respect and colleague relationship, you know, whether you all had each other’s back, but it’s not something that’s taught in school, right? And if you’re not around, share this story like you’re sharing with me. There’s there are people out there that are fumbling when, yeah, similar situation. So that’s why I was curious on how did that happen for you? How did you learn?

Thomas Barnette  20:12

Yeah, I really will say that. I think that there’s always been a well, it goes back to respect, yeah, and knowing what you know and what you don’t know, and being transparent about that. So knowing what your strengths are, knowing and being comfortable sharing what your strengths are and what they aren’t or what you don’t know, so that you can learn from a place of authenticity and honesty. Because if you’re trying to fake it, that doesn’t work. People have done that for too long, and that’s part of the problem. There is a gap between what they really know and they’re posturing, you know, and that gets in the way facts, because there’s a difference between truth and facts. So when you’re operating from facts, you’re making better decisions. So tell not just your truth, but operate from facts on who you are and what more you need to know. Be open, be transparent and be open to people, being able to be your mentor, being your guide, even if you are leading them. I knew you’ve been here longer. You’ve done this job. This was how you started, and I will tell you, she ended up becoming a supervisor too, because I said, there’s no reason why you should not be a supervisor. And I don’t know if I should say her name, but she is one of my closest friends, and we are all going to get together or, you know, lunch or dinner soon. But I know that because I was like, You need to be doing this. And she said, Okay, help me. And she ended up becoming a supervisor. And so when she retired, she was in a leadership position because she had everything else. So for me, it comes down to those things. What are your strengths, identifying those for yourself, being honest, being transparent and open, and, you know, being able to be coached, find a mentor, and then do that for other people, that’s right, that for other people, and when you find that combination, but you have to start off with your Facts of who you are, not the truth.

Karan Rhodes  22:16

Those are the facts.

Thomas Barnette  22:22

And I think that that’s what as a coach, I really start with helping people to connect to themselves and then meet the people that they’re leading where they are, not where they want them to be, but where they are.

Karan Rhodes  22:36

Oh, I love that. And then I know I can’t believe I’m blinking and time is I’m running down. But there’s one thing I really want to make sure we touch base on which I really loved is you had another piece of advice for the environment that leaders should create for their teams, and I want to make sure it gets out there, because I think the listeners would love to hear you expound on it. I love the three safeties that you talked about in the environment, it was safety creating an environment that has safety in learning, one that has safety in making mistakes, and one that has safety in providing feedback. And I was wondering if you would expound on why that’s so important as a leader, to provide a work environment that has those safety caveats, if you will, in it. How does that help an organization?

Thomas Barnette  23:27

Well, first of all, we all learn in different ways, especially, you know, given the fact that we’re understanding so much more about neuro diversity, the way people’s brains work, which is beautiful and unique, and how we are able to then give people information based on where they are. Do we ask those questions even when we start with new team members? What do you need in order for me to lead you successful? What don’t I know that if I knew it, I could lead you better? That’s actually the very first thing that I share with people about myself as their leader and for them as a team member, what do I need to know about you and what do they need to know about me? Creates so much more trust and honesty and relationship building, but then they may tell you something about a learning ability or difference that they have that can help you dial into their ability so much more so that you’re not giving them exactly what you would give everybody else. You know there’s a difference between equity and equality, and that’s a lot of it is just how people think, learn and process information when we know that we can meet them where they are. That’s equity, right? Yeah, so that’s the first thing that safety and learning, so that when they are learning, we’re not judging them based on their different learning style. I think that breaks down information and processes so much faster. Than we realize, because people are hiding, not wanting to tell you something, so that you don’t think that they’re incapable. That’s right, gotta break that. We’ve got to break that yes, and you know, really helping people to understand that as they are learning, as they’re processing, as they’re becoming who they are supposed to be at work. A lot of times when people are not getting their meet, their needs met, from that sense of understanding, that sense of what it is that they’re supposed to be doing, and they don’t feel connected to the process, then they’re not necessarily doing their best work. They’re not showing up to be their best self. And as a leader, we start looking for, where’s the gap? Where are they making a mistake? So all of that is a part of that process, and then also making sure, yeah, and when people start making the mistakes, how we give them the information? Are we using it for them to learn, or are we using it to point something out so that they’re already going to feel bad? But how do we give them the information in a way that allows them to learn and grow from it? Vice versa? Because here’s the thing, not all of us as leaders are really great at giving or receiving feedback. If we know that, and we tell people, I don’t like to give feedback because I always feel bad, and sometimes I don’t necessarily it doesn’t land where it needs to be. Can you help me so that I can learn how to get better at it? We’ll work at it together. People say absolutely, if you want the truth. Now you ask them, they will tell you,

Karan Rhodes  26:43

Yeah, you get their permission and then they’ll tell you.

Thomas Barnette  26:47

They will tell you. So I think a lot of times it’s about being able to find that balance in safety for people to make the mistakes, to learn and grow from it, and then creating an environment where people also feel safe to be their authentic self. I think that that’s important, not just in their how they show up, but are they showing up in a way that’s authentic to them for their safety when people are doing that, especially in today’s world, because generationally, things are changing. Oh, absolutely, yeah, the younger generation coming into the workforce has a very strong sense of their identity, very strong. Are we able to meet them where they are, and are we creating a space for them to understand us as well? So that that part of it, I think, is important. So all of that safety is important in terms of leadership and getting people to be able to do their best work.

Karan Rhodes  27:45

Oh, wow. Well, Thomas, we could just drop the mic on that one, because that was amazing gems of knowledge. I hope my listeners out there took some great notes, if not definitely check out the show notes, because we’ll have the points listed in there as well. And make sure you take this back to your teams. But Thomas, before we let you go, we’ve got to ask you our signature question, if you don’t mind. As you know, our firm commissioned a research study on leadership execution, as I mentioned, and there were seven big buckets that are critical when executing any job or an effort or initiative. And we always ask our guests which of the seven really resonated with them. All seven are equally as important, and you use them at different times, obviously, but there’s always, usually one that our guest was like, wow, I can really resonate with that. And you were so kind to share that, leading with a drive for results. Really picked your ears. And for my new listeners out there, the way we define it is just as it sounds. It’s being very tenacious and focused on ensuring your end goals or objectives are achieved, even if you have to pivot along the way. So curious minds want to know Thomas, one lady with the drive for results really resonate with you?

Thomas Barnette  29:04

I think that the human condition, meaning we’re in these human bodies, we like to make a difference. I think, you know, a lot of the apathy for people is, well, does it really make a difference? So this whole robotic way of working and doing things without understanding that change will be necessary. We need change. Not everybody likes change, but it’s good for us to be able to embrace it when it’s done right, and make a difference. So results are what we’re always looking for. We’re always looking to see, are we moving the needle? Are we making something better? Are we making our lives better? Are we making the lives better of the people that we reach? Our clients, our customers, whatever it is, but as people, every day that we’re working, it’s important for us to feel like we are a part of something that makes a difference and that. It, we understand it, we can connect to it, and we can see it happening. So we have to lead people in a way that allows them to feel that individually, so that they can then be a part of the of the strategy of the organization, so that that part of it in terms of results, they’re seeing it as well.

Karan Rhodes  30:20

Oh, absolutely, because that’s what makes us energized about getting up at every day, being part of something bigger than ourselves and joining along with others. It’s just part of the human spirit.

Thomas Barnette  30:31

It is. But yeah, we’re just kind of lost,

Karan Rhodes  30:34

Yeah, that’s what I was gonna say.

Thomas Barnette  30:35

And I think that the strategies that we use should be tailored to whatever project we’re working on or what people need, and it’s not always the same thing. So we have to be careful and mindful of does this work for everyone, or can we use different ones for different people? A really great leader will understand that, and we have to give people an opportunity to know that not every strategy works for every person, and be able to be flexible and agile and move how we need to, and that’s how we are able to put more tools in our tool belt too.

Karan Rhodes  31:14

That’s right. That’s right. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing that. Thomas, we also have a ton of information in our show notes, your bio, where people can find you and all that good stuff. But I always love to give a little time of air time for you to do the same. So if people are interested in learning more about you and the services that your firm offers, where can they best find you?

Thomas Barnette  31:40

Right now, LinkedIn, so under my name, Thomas Barnett, that’s T H, O, M, A, S, B, as in boy, a, r, n, e, t, t, e, the Impaxion website will be done by the end of this month for a very specific reason. So that will be www.impaxion, (E, M, P, A, X, I O N).com, and you can also email me at ThomasB., ThomasB, as in barnett at impaxion.com So Thomasb@impaxion.com.

Karan Rhodes  32:11

Awesome. We’ll have all that information in the show notes, probably by the time we air this it you might have your website shiny and new for everybody. Very minimal. We’ll have your LinkedIn and your email address if folks can reach out to reach and to learn more and to speak to us. But thank you so much for the gift of your time and being on today’s episode. We really appreciate it.

Thomas Barnette  32:36

Thank you, Karan, thank you so much for having me today and and giving me this opportunity to share more with you and with your viewers and listeners. So thank you so much.

Karan Rhodes  32:46

Oh,you’re so well,

Thomas Barnette  32:48

Very grateful,

Karan Rhodes  32:49

And we’re grateful as well, Thomas and thank you to also listeners for the gift of your time as well. We know that there are literally millions of other podcasts out there for you to listen to, and we don’t take your patronage lightly, but all we ask is that you please like and subscribe to the podcast and share with just one friend, because by doing so, we will all learn how to better lead at the top of our game. Thank you so much, and see you next week. And that’s our show for today. Thank you for listening to the lead at the top of your game podcast, where we help you lead your seat at any employer, business, or industry in which you choose to play. You can check out the show notes, additional episodes, and bonus resources, and also submit guest recommendations on our website at leadyourgamepodcast.com. You can follow me on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn by searching for the name Karan Rhodes with Karan being spelled K a r a n. And if you like the show, the greatest gift you can give would be to subscribe and leave a rating on your podcast platform of choice. This podcast has been a production of Shockingly Different Leadership, a global consultancy which helps organizations execute their people, talent development, and organizational effectiveness initiatives on an on-demand, project, or contract basis. Huge thanks to our production and editing team for a job well done. Goodbye for now.