Episode 26 | Why People-First Leadership Really Works with Steve Browne

Steve Browne  00:00

Right before we got on the podcast, where we’re talking to all our general managers about how to better lead their people and shephard their people, so that we do while the pizzerias in the company perform, that’s an HR thing. We keep trying to think of us on the outside looking in, or, you know, the whole awful seat at the table thing. That’s crud, we should be intermingled throughout every department.

Voiceover  00:24

Welcome to the “Lead at the Top of Your Game” podcast, where we equip you to more effectively lead your seat at any employer, business, or industry in which you choose to play. Each week, we help you sharpen your leadership acumen by cracking open the playbooks of dynamic leaders who are doing big things in their professional endeavors. And now, your host, leadership tactics, and organizational development expert, Karan Ferrell-Rhodes.

Karan Rhodes  01:00

Hey, they’re superstars. Welcome to the podcast and thanks for joining another episode designed to help you better lead at the top of your game. Human Resources functions and organizations have long been labeled as a necessary evil by some business leaders. And well yes, they are considered overheads. Sometimes, you know, I’m not aware of not one thriving company who is considered an employer choice who does not have a sound people and culture, organization and strategy. And our guests today says that every issue in a company boils down to being a people issue. And I wholeheartedly agree. On today’s show. I’m honored to have Steve Browne, who’s the Chief People Officer of neurosis Incorporated, which is a chain of pizza Reese’s serving neighborhoods throughout Ohio, Kentucky and Indiana. Steve has long been an HR industry influencer and is well known on social media via his keynotes being a Sherm blogger, also via his books on HR strategy, so you definitely going to need to check those out. You won’t want to miss his game changing insights on today’s show. And be sure to stay tuned for about two minutes after the episode to listen to my closing segment called Karan’s take, where I share a tip on how to use insights from today’s episode to further sharpen your leadership acumen. And now enjoy the show. Hey there superstars This is Karan and welcome to today’s episode. I am super excited to have a person that I’ve really been a fan girl of from afar, but he is historic in the human resources and human capital community. We’re so pleased to have on today’s show, Mr. Steve Browne, who is the Chief People Officer for Larosa’s, which is a regional pizzeria chain in the Midwest. Is it in or in the mid part of the states? Where is it located Steve?

Steve Browne  03:07

we’re in Greater Cincinnati, primarily, the Greater Cincinnati area. Yeah.

Karan Rhodes  03:10

Awesome. Well, welcome. And thank you for joining us. Oh,

Steve Browne  03:13

Oh gosh, I’m excited. We’ve known each other for so long online. And to have a chance to really chat is a joy.

Karan Rhodes  03:20

It is is it’s just a little nugget listeners. You know, we’ve all kind of shudder when we think of social media, but using the right way and sparingly, you can really make some very strong connections and I have never met Steve in person, but I have followed his work what he’s does his advice. He is always at the Sherm conferences of so he is a superstar within his own right, if you don’t mind me saying

Steve Browne  03:49

very humbly, thank you.

Karan Rhodes  03:52

Wonderful. Well, why don’t we start at Stanford, as much as you feel comfortable? Can you share with our listeners a bit about maybe your educational background and how you started in the world of HR.

Steve Browne  04:03

I’m one of those rare people, Karan that I chose HR right off the bat, not in college in college, I started as a chemical engineer, and then that didn’t work out. And then I started as a chemist, because those were the jobs that made the most money. At the time. I was very good at math and science, but my grades plummeted. And my mother said, Hey, why don’t you get into a field where you’re with people because that’s what you’ve always done. And I’ve been so long it was back when it was personnel. Industrial relations takes that. So when I started but I started gosh, oh my gosh, close to 40 years ago in HR. And during that time were for a global company fortune 100 fortune 10 company actually found out I didn’t fit because a great company, not my cup of tea. When went from being a specialist as a recruiter starting out, then straight into being a generalist. And I worked for a startup. And it was back when it was funny. We call them entrepreneurs. But it was a startup, you know, the term now as you would never exist it first HR person. And after that I worked in manufacturing, engineering and architecture. And I’ve been here at La Rosa’s, which is a pizzeria, a restaurant chain, for 16 years now. So this is where I’ve been the longest, and what I still enjoy doing HR, and I moved from Philly RX, to now doing all the strategy and implementation at the highest level.

Karan Rhodes  05:40

Wow, that is amazing. And, you know, Steve, what I didn’t learn. I’ve just learned amazing, I didn’t realize that before. I didn’t realize how many industries you have been a part of throughout your professional career, really managing kind of that people side of business, if you will. That’s amazing. So Steve, I really love for you to share, because I know you talk about this a lot. But in your opinion, what is HR’s role in either supporting or empowering leadership both at the company and within their own teams? Because they have to lead their own teams, right to lead the organization? What are your thoughts around that?

Steve Browne  06:22

I think we provide support, but it’s far more than that we should lead because we are the people side of the business. HR is the only area that touches every person, only one. So there’s no reason why we shouldn’t be leading. Should it’s funny, it’s semantics. Right? Do I provide support? Yes. But do I help you work through and lead and perform that’s better? So where I think the role needs to be if it’s not is our role is to drive the company forward through performance through its people? Okay, so teaching people managers how to manage? Well, I just came out of a meeting right before we got on the podcast, where we’re talking to all of our general managers about how to better lead their people in jeopardy there are people so that we do while the pizzerias in the company performs, that’s an HR thing. We keep trying to think of us on the outside looking in, or, you know, the whole awful seat at the table thing. That’s crud, we should be intermingled throughout every department.

Karan Rhodes  07:24

And, you know, Steve, for as long as I’ve been I’ve been writing for almost as many years as you have in in the, in the world of work. Since I started right out of college, you know, the human resources function always seem to have to lay the groundwork for being at the table. Right? We were always, I won’t say always fighting, but we were always had a lens of showing our value and getting in at the beginning of conversations versus the end. So how do you recommend our HR colleagues and peers to be more of a leader, when they’re business people that may not be used to HR having that type of functional role or being that type of support?

Steve Browne  08:11

It’s a great question. I think it’s something that we’ve just missed.

Karan Rhodes  08:15

You do?

Steve Browne  08:16

In the pandemic, we found out that all of a sudden, we were important. In 2008, it was the financial people were like, “Oh, my gosh, we’re bleeding financially. Let’s talk to finance.” Right. And so now when it was a giant, real human issue, they go, he’s HR people don’t they do return or they do people stuff. And what’s funny is, in taking a look at it, I’ve always viewed it as every issue in a company is a people issue, and I can prove it. And if you’re if you’re in charge of purchasing, and you help buy cheese for our pizzeria, this is all the conversation typically happens. “Hey, where are we on cheese? And Karan.” you go, Wait a minute. Is it about cheese and purchasing? Or is it about Karan, who does that work? So instead of focusing on the things and the work and the processes, we have to put things in order, so we came up with this formula. People + processes to equip = performance? A lot of companies in HR people go “Oh, no, we’re supposed to perform, we’re supposed to hit our numbers we’re supposed to show value.” What we need to learn is by working through our people, and making them the best they can be, we will perform. It’s not the other way around. In the companies that keep doing the, you know, what’s the ROI and G or overhead, I just want to smack them and say, Yes, I am overhead. However, by taking care of your people, I’ll bet you you’re going to perform better than just hitting your numbers. That’s because because people are wonderful and messy. They’re wonderful because they’ll do their best job but they’re messy because they’re people so My advice to our peers is quit waiting to lead. Yes, blaze the trail instead be the one who steps forward, you take some shots, but I’m telling you just waiting for it doesn’t work. I tried that in the early part of my career, and I was overlooked or only brought in on problems situations. If the only reason HR is around for a crisis, you don’t need HR, outsource.

Karan Rhodes  10:24

That’s absolutely right. You can have anyone come and do it. And if you don’t mind me sharing, that’s how I, I was able to accelerate in my career. Not waiting, I would say for the first few years when I was in the work world, I did, because I was trying to soak up everything and watch from others and learn from others. But I found I got the most recognition or credit and was most helpful when I brought new opportunities. And I had thought through them. And I talked in terms of impact, I mean, real ROI, real impact of what it would be. And that’s when you start getting that reputation or building that leadership brand as the person who, you know, can be on special projects, or who can tackle those big meaty type of situations. And you’re so right, no one has to in leaders at all levels. Don’t have to wait too late. You can take the bull by the horns and maneuver within your office politics or situation, right.

Steve Browne  11:27

Mmm hmm. It’s funny, we, we think that if we’re intentional, that’s contrary to being empathetic. And we’re like HR people are supposed to be nice people while they are. They should be. But here’s the thing being intentional. Everybody else is intentional. We keep paying playing this picture. Like, if they would only treat me this way, I be so much better. Come on. You can turn it around, say because I’m a business person who does HR. Yeah. Just like you’re a business person who does ops, or sales or finance or it or pick something. You can turn it around. And everybody when they’re intentional moves things forward. If you’re just gonna sit back and wait, that’s how you’re going to be treated. It’s how you’re going to be seen.

Karan Rhodes  12:13

That’s right. And what would be your message, Steve, to our business leaders, those that aren’t quite yet sold don’t have an HR on the table all the time. What do you do you win? If you ever face those who are a little skeptical?

Steve Browne  12:28

I think it’s a great question. And I also don’t want to be naive or utopian. This is in practice, okay, this is what I’ve been able to do very fortunate. But I have a senior leadership team who said, you know, we’re a people company, we need the people person there. So let’s go. But during the pandemic, we had a great thing where we were trying to go to do curbside pickup, so people felt safe, and we can take your food to your car. Now we’ve been talking about it for three years, three years, and we couldn’t do it. crisis happens, boom happens in a week. Amazing. It was agility, like you talked about in your leadership-type things. Agility was forced upon us when we could have taken it ahead of time. So now that we face a situation, and I was talking to the CEO, Listen, man, that curve sounds awesome hasn’t because odd savings. I said, Isn’t it interesting? Why do we have to wait for a crisis to have this kind of energy? Why don’t we use this kind of energy all the time to perform and when a crisis happens? We’re ready. That’s right. It eases What’s this? I’m not saying what we did is wrong. But we can’t keep waiting for the world to fall apart. I think HR people bring that lens. We’re the ones who say, Look, we’re doing great. What if we did this all the time? At the meeting, I mentioned I said we tend to be people who are problem-focused. Hey, this is what’s wrong. Hey, this is what’s effed up, we won’t say the word because on the podcast, hey, everything is people get value because they take what they think is wrong and fix it. What I did, but what have you said, in order to perform, we have to address the following problems. flipping it around, then people go, Well, I want to perform I want to do well. Here’s the problem. If you have a performance lens through your people, instead of a problem lens against or in spite of your people, it’s two different dynamics. I don’t know anybody at any level in any industry that can’t put that style of framework into their leadership.

Karan Rhodes  14:36

You’re so right, because it’s, I mean, it’s not rocket science, but it’s being intentional about doing so, right. To do that, and you’re right, it can be in every organization or company or department. It can be infused in there. You know, and you bring up a great point, especially with you being a chief people officer of a company that’s in the restaurant. and hospitality industry, if there was anyone who had to pivot, it’s been you all in those umbrella industries, you know, meaning you had to pivot during the pandemic. How was there a time where it was clear on who in the organization who were going to be the better people, leaders versus others? During that pandemic? I know you were struggling to probably keep staff and deciding who to keep and who to let go if you’d let go of anyone. But how did the pandemic really push and stretch your people? Leaders? I guess that’s the question I want to ask.

Steve Browne  15:40

It’s a great question. There’s a couple of things. One, we had to own that we’re emotional beings. So people were freaking out, upset, angry, didn’t know what was going on. The new regulation came out at two and the new ones at four. So you’re like, what’s going on? It was it was a kind of pace because the world was facing uncertainty. We’ve never seen anything like this before. We’re the first generation that hasn’t had a global issue happen. The last generation that had this happen, it was in the 1940s, when there was a World War. There’s big things that happen all the time now, but this was the first one that hit us all. So we first thing we said, hey, it’s okay to be emotional, because we got it. Quit hiding it. It’s coming out anyway. The second thing is it forced collaboration. So instead of collaboration being a word on the wall, it had to happen in between each other. So if Karan and Steve were Prickly, we had to work it out. And we hadn’t done that before. So we valued the people relationships, because they made us come together. Our pizzerias were considered, quote, essential. Because what’s funny is feet, people need to eat and we fed you. So we were essential. But our team members never went home. Ever.

Karan Rhodes  16:56

What do you mean, it didn’t go home?

Steve Browne  16:58

We worked in the pizzerias while people were at their houses, you know, when people quarantined and we never closed, ever. So our team members, 16 year olds, to, you know, people well in their 70s, where the great, wonderful people on the frontline, who have always been there who served well. And so from a people manager side, we said, look, our team members are sacrificing on a personal level, to take care of others. How can we come alongside, to enable them to do their job, to give them flexibility to be there to cry when we need to cry and yell when we need to yell. And what it brought us together as an organization, far more than, “Oh my gosh, here’s the problems” because what’s been great about our company is we say, “This is what we’re facing. How do we address it?” So we paused, we breathe. And we said, Okay, now that and then you just take the pace. So we never laid a person off.

Karan Rhodes  17:58

Oh, that is fantastic Steve!

Steve Browne  18:01

We’re much different. We’re kind of like his little magical nugget that no one knows about.

Karan Rhodes  18:07

Wow, what a blast it from the hilltops. That is fantastic. I’m so impressed. And I’m sure your employees really appreciated that too. Because although they were on the front lines, they hopefully felt that you all were doing as much as you could to keep them safe to keep them employed to keep them stable.

Steve Browne  18:30

And we also did things like we did team member relief. So we bought gift cards on a regular basis and gave them gift cards so that they could buy food. So it was here’s a Kroger gift card. It wasn’t here’s a gift card to some thing they couldn’t do. We tried to provide people’s basic needs, because they were taking care of the needs of others. We believe very much in Milan, model the behavior you expecting others. So, so you can’t just have these lofty aspirational programs, it has to really touch people. And we’ve been very fortunate. We have wonderful, wonderful team members.

Karan Rhodes  19:06

That’s fantastic. So you know, Steve, you’re a leader within yourself. You’re part of that C suite and then not only coach and advise the other leaders, but you’re right there, trying to always stay on top of your game as well, I’m sure. And so I’m curious, are there any things that you do to stay on top of your game? Mind Body and Soul or knowledge wise, what do you what do you do to help continue to grow as a leader?

Steve Browne  19:35

There’s some professional things and some personal things and they kind of blur.

Karan Rhodes  19:40

Don’t they always?

Steve Browne  19:43

I’m crazy intentional about calling and talking to my peers. So doing this kind of thing, not be on a podcast. If you’re connected me it’s on. So I’m gonna check on you. I want to see how you’re doing. Because that fills my bucket cause, as HR people, we don’t have that ability to do internally, most often, you have to have a place where you can dump your bucket, you have to have a place where you can go, “I’m going to scream” and what can you do? You don’t want to take that home, you want to work that with your peers. So I really, I almost every commute on the way home. In fact, a young lady from a conference I spoke at in Texas reached out, I don’t know her, she said, Hey, can I talk to you tonight, and you just seem like somebody I can talk to. I have a situation at work. And I really need to talk to a peer of mine, just that’s happening right there. The other thing is, I’m part of the Sherman executive network. And I have a cohort of fellow C suite people. What’s funny is, if you put us in a room, not one of not one, we go, gosh, these guys are executives, like, Who are these guys. But my group is tight. I mean, the cohort we have it’s a fun name cohort. We’re friends and peers. And what’s interesting is, the way we’ve approached it as a group is we’re not doing this lofty. I’m a C, it’s I’m a person who happens to have a senior role. It’s a much healthier perspective. I don’t deal well with people who throw a title at me. Because, you know, we can call you anything you want. But what are you for yourself and your people. Another thing is I read a lot. I write constantly in music, I have music all the time. And I had to turn it off before you got on. Because I just I need that constant stimulation of music have flown around.

Karan Rhodes  21:32

I learned that about you online. I think it was, I’m drawn a blank, but one of the ones I have a podcast, they always tease you every now and then about music you’re listening to Oh, yeah.

Steve Browne  21:45

It’s fun. I like to find things that tie us together. Because I think there’s more that ties us together versus probably this part. I love that everybody’s diverse and different and unique. We all are. But but there’s things that tie us together. So if you’re in a certain kind of music, and I’m not well, we could talk about that. But I like to talk to people who are passionate, and indeed can have a big motor and drive.

Karan Rhodes  22:09

That’s a wonderful. Well, I don’t know if our audience listeners know this, but you have, you’ve written a book before but you’ve released the new book, correct?  Or it’s coming

Steve Browne  22:21

Well, I had one on one and 2017, one in 2020 (great time to release a book). And I’m writing, I’m writing,my third one right now. So I want to, as I told friends, this is terrible. I want to be the JRR Tolkien, because I’m a nerd of HR, I want to have a trilogy so that people can learn. But ummm…

Karan Rhodes  22:44

Will you share the books that you’ve written this far. And if you have a title, we’d love to hear the new and maybe you want to keep that for a surprise?

Steve Browne  22:52

I’ll tell you. The first one is “HR on Purpose.” And the whole point was, I’m tired of us apologizing for who we are and what we do. Yeah, we’re the only profession who does. And we have stop it. We can’t, we can’t be seen as credible if we keep saying “I’m so sorry, I’m in HR, sorry, I’m taking care of your people.” That’s got to stop. The second one is called “HR Rising.” And to your topic, Karan, it’s about being strategic, intentionally strategic, and being a leader in what we do, regardless of your role. You don’t have to have a C in front of your name to be a leader. There are many people who are departments and one who are great HR leaders. So it was more encouragement and how to lead as an HR person. And the third one is called HR unleashed. And the whole, the whole point is the pandemic, let us free. So now we got to run. So now that we’re free, let’s go at it quit going back to the old patterns and what HR had been to push it forward so that we can succeed. And organizations can as well.

Karan Rhodes  23:58

You’re so right, because companies aren’t waiting on us. We’ve got to keep up with what’s going on in the industries and markets. Any we can we have to remain agile. They’re not going to wait on us to go you know, I was speaking at an event at the Gallup headquarters in DC. And we’re speaking on some of this feature trends that are going on in the world of work. And that was really the theme. It’s like we’re moving light years faster than the industry was even five years ago. So those who don’t keep up and stay ahead are gonna get left behind. Unfortunately, that’s my opinion anyway.

Steve Browne  24:43

No! I think you’re spot on.

Karan Rhodes  24:48

Steve I’d love to share one last little thing. We have a segment at the end we call full disclosure, but I promise you there’s no gotcha questions. But I was curious about what is your kryptonite? What feels like quicksand to you what kind of work like when what happens in your daily work that you’re like, oh my gosh, I gotta set aside mental time for this.

Steve Browne  25:16

When people aren’t upfront, when people are dissing genuine, it kills me, because I don’t see the value in it. And I don’t see how it helps us. I don’t need to play games, I don’t have time for it. Other people don’t have time for it. And if people just skirt around things, I’d rather have the more direct conversation with grace and respect. But to just imply things he I say, sort of kind of dot dot that I’m like, Oh, come on. It’s harder, because again, we think we’re going to go too far, or someone’s going to push someone’s button or someone’s going to say something they shouldn’t. I don’t take that. I will be open and upfront with you. The minute you meet me. So fame here. I don’t like it when people I respect people want to kind of feel you out. Yeah, but after a while,

Karan Rhodes  26:09

It gets old. Yeah. And in your experience, the what is one of the most common missteps of leaders, things that they do that could easily be probably avoided. But what are one of the most common pitfalls or success inhibitors?

Steve Browne  26:32

I think people don’t read the room.

Karan Rhodes  26:35

Mmmm! Good one!

Steve Browne  26:36

I think I think people are so focused on their good work, their good efforts, their good contributions, that they don’t even say, Hey, I’m just gonna launch this on you. And it feels like this giant avalanche and Karan saying, Hey, can I write something about that? Yeah, like, you know, no, it’s fantastic. And here it comes it’s like a freight train that runs through things. One of the things we’ve done recently is, when we’ve had meetings, we change our whole meeting approach, when we’ve had meetings where say, who’s the audience of the meeting? And that’s how we’re gonna set it up. Not what’s the agenda? That’s not what, what’s the agenda of the meeting? So if we gather this group of people, like our general managers we did today, what are we going to do that adds value to them? Instead of let’s talk about all our good work, right? It doesn’t say anything to who they are, what they do, and how they contribute to many meetings are about stuff instead of people. So knowing your audience and framing it that way. It’s really is revitalized how we do meetings. They’ve been more effective. And we’ve even walked away from stuff that used to be Oh, so immediately, we’re like, that’s an email. No, no. But leaders who don’t read the room and consider the others and how things are affected, I find to be very self centered and self centered. People don’t do well as leaders.

Karan Rhodes  27:56

No they don’t, you’re so right. Oh, my gosh, that’s a great nugget. All right, one last thing for us the what is one of your dream spots to go on vacation?

Steve Browne  28:07

Oh, gosh, my wife and I love England. If I could, I would live there.

Karan Rhodes  28:13

Would you?

Steve Browne  28:14

Oh, in a heartbeat.

Karan Rhodes  28:15

I have quite a few friends there.

Steve Browne  28:17

I do, too. I’m a very tall person. It to be a giant person in England would just be fun. Because they’re not all that very tall. But I just love the whole history, the vibe, the community. As a as a society, all of the UK is far more hey, let’s go hang out. It is. It’s in America, you can find pockets of that. But there’s more. Hey, let’s have dinner at my house on this one day. In the UK, it’ll be it’ll be I’ll meet you at the pub eight,

Karan Rhodes  28:50

And go from there.

Steve Browne  28:51

And you just show up.

Karan Rhodes  28:53

That’s right. That is so right. I have a ton of friends over there and used to get there almost, you know, multiple times a year of traveling with you know, with business. So yeah, it’s one of my favorite spots as well. So I totally get it. Well, Steve, I literally blinked and time has flown by. But thank you so much for the gift of your time and advice on this podcast. It’s been a thrill.

Steve Browne  29:23

Well, it’s been too long. I’m so glad I really mean that and I wish people would understand that once I get to know you, it matters to me. So to be able to to see you and talk to you and hear you. It’s huge.

Karan Rhodes  29:37

 Oh, it’s huge for me. Doubly huge. And listen, just thank you so much for the gift of your time for joining the elite at the top of your game podcast. We can’t wait to have you listen in on our next episode. Please be sure to share the podcast with a friend or two we could use the extra listeners and hopefully we’ll be able to give them a negative to to help them Eat at the top of their game. Well, without further ado, we’ll see you next time. Take care. Bye. Well, I hope you enjoyed our conversation today with Steve Browne, Chief People Officer of LaRosa’s incorporated. Links to his bio, his entry internal leadership playbook, and additional resources can be found in the show notes both on your favorite podcast platform of choice, and on the website at https://LeadYourGamePodcast.com.  And now for Karan’s take on today’s topic of people first leadership. So I wanted to share just a few tips on how to build a people first culture. And I want to give credit to the website work human.com. They have a great fantastic article on it. But I wanted to share just a few of those tips with they also share. The first tip involves establishing an organization wide alignment in your business processes. This means prioritizing aligning the work of the business with each employee’s work to ensure that they’re fulfilling the both the mission statement and ultimately, the company’s business goals. The second tip is develop an employee feedback opportunity mechanism. A people first approach includes a deep focus on the employee experience and wellbeing. And that starts with having a firm grasp on what the employee experience really is. And to do this, you must have a feedback mechanism in place to gather that data, analyze it, and make course corrections were needed. The third tip involves giving leaders strategies for establishing trust and empathy. This will empower employees to be better leaders and give your leaders the tools that they need to better support their teams. And then the final to tip today is around prioritizing recognizing your people’s contributions. Recognition is the cornerstone of ensuring employees feel seen and valued by their organization. So putting it together and implementing a employee recognition plan is definitely going to be key. Now, if you’re listening to this show, know that our podcast is not free. No, it’s not behind a paywall. But we do have a gentleman’s and gentleman’s agreement to the price for admission is that you just honor a pet amongst us brands to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform of choice, and also share our podcast with one print that does a really good deal or price, not a penny out of your pocket. So thank you so much for considering and honoring our past. And thanks again for listening. And see you all next week. And that’s our show for today. Thank you for listening to the lead at the top of your game podcast where we help you lead your seat at any employer, business or industry in which you choose to play. You can check out the show notes, additional episodes, bonus resources and also submit guest recommendations on our website at leisure game podcast.com. You can follow me on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn by searching for the name Karan Rhodes with Karan being spelled ka ra n. And if you like the show, the greatest gift you can give would be to subscribe and leave a rating on your podcast platform of choice. This podcast has been a production of shockingly different leadership, a global consultancy which helps organizations execute their people talent development and organizational effectiveness initiatives on an on demand project or contract basis. Teach thanks to our production and editing team for a job well done. Bye for now.