Episode 27 | The Leadership Power of Delegation with Joyel Crawford

 Joyel Crawford  00:00

I talk about delegation. And one of the biggest things that I see come up is, it’s a control issue. The reason why most leaders resist delegation is because they’re like, “Oh, I could get it done faster myself,” right? That’s a control issue. Welcome to the “Lead at the Top of Your Game” podcast, where we equip you to more effectively lead your seat at any employer, business, or industry in which you choose to play. Each week, we help you sharpen your leadership acumen by cracking open the playbooks of dynamic leaders who are doing big things in their professional endeavors. And now, your host, leadership tactics, and organizational development expert, Karan Ferrell-Rhodes.

Karan Rhodes  00:52

Hey, they’re superstars. Welcome to the podcast. And thanks for joining another episode that’s designed to help you better lead at the top of your game. Now, in full disclosure, I have perfectionist tendencies. And I always have to be honest with you, and well it serves me well. In many instances, it sometimes is my Achilles heel when I’m leading teams. The Gremlins in my head tells me that no one can accomplish the task better than me or exactly how I like it, which causes me to avoid delegating tasks to others altogether. However, I’ve learned over the years that delegating is an essential competency of great leadership, because it empowers others to use their strengths to shine in a very impactful way. And it also frees you up to focus your energies on higher priority projects. And our guest today goes deep on the psychology behind delegation, and how we as leaders can get out of our own way to better serve both ourselves and others. And on today’s show, I’m honored to have Joyel Crawford, who is the founder and CEO of Crawford leadership strategies, a global leadership and career consultancy. She was recently awarded for the second time as one of the best career coaching services in Philadelphia. And she’s also the host of the career view mirror podcast. Her career advice is also featured in Forbes, the Wall Street Journal, essence and Newsweek. So, be sure to listen into this great episode. But stay tuned for just two minutes after the episode to listen to my closing segment called Karan’s take, where I share a tip on how to use insights from today’s episode to further sharpen your leadership acumen. And now, enjoy the show. Hey there, superstars This is Karan, and welcome to today’s episode. I am absolutely thrilled and super excited to have a very dear friend, a sorority sister and just a leadership’s extraordinaire. We have on today’s show. Joyel Crawford, who is the founder and CEO of Crawford leadership strategies. And when I tell you that she has a ton of gyms and thoughts and ideas for us, you better believe it as you will soon find out. So welcome to today’s show Joyel

Joyel Crawford  03:26

Thank you, Karan. So good to be here.

Karan Rhodes  03:29

It’s so awesome to have you. And in full transparency listeners. I early early early in the podcast game, Joyel invited me to be part of her. Actually, it was a TV show and podcast together. And it was one of my very first experiences and she made it so enjoyable. That was one of the reasons that I felt comfortable with launching the lead at the top of your game podcast here, you know, years later, so I just want to publicly say thank you Joyel for that inspiration.

Joyel Crawford  04:07

We had a lot of fun. We had a lot of fun.

Karan Rhodes  04:09

did lots of laughs I still remember that. Well, before we get down into the nitty gritty before as much as you feel comfortable, I would love for you to share with the audience. A bit more about your personal background say maybe where you grew up a little bit about your educational and professional journey and then we’ll get to talking about leadership.

Joyel Crawford  04:31

Right? Well, I grew up in a small city called Plainfield, New Jersey. I don’t know if anyone’s ever heard of it. It is in Central Jersey, central New Jersey. And even though people don’t think that there is a central New Jersey there is I grew up there I was born and raised and went to an undergrad undergraduate school called Elon. Elon University was Elon college at the time and then got my MBA at Fairleigh Dickinson University in Madison. In New Jersey, and the highlight of my professional journey was spending 18 years it was my first big girl job in corporate America working for a telecom company, very large telecom company, probably never heard of it. And throughout my career, she I worked in leadership and executive development, equal employment and affirmative action, employee relations, staffing, professional mentoring, and learning and development training. And I was a manager of management and employee development. And I was in charge of the leadership development program for over 30,000 employees. That’s to me, I feel like one of the biggest highlights throughout my career,

Karan Rhodes  05:44

That is amazing. And I know how hard that can be. I mean, it’s challenging and exciting, but I know how hard it can be because I was, as you know, was in a similar role when I worked at Microsoft, and we had 1000s employees, on our programs as well. So it’s exciting. But there’s never a dull day, I must say, I don’t know if they you experienced that as well.

Joyel Crawford  06:09

Yeah, it was always a thing. And I’ll just come out and say I was working at Verizon, it was a tiny, tiny it was it was Bell Atlantic mobile when I started, and then it became Verizon Wireless. And now it’s Verizon. So it’s like, huge grows. But like, as I was growing professionally, the organization and the company was growing, it was just an interesting experience to see, you know, the transitions of so much stuff, and how learning and development, like flourished and grew along with it. You know, it’s just a very interesting experience.

Karan Rhodes  06:42

And you know, Joyel, when you reflect back on those times, you know, that I remember the bells. I mean, some of these didn’t, zeros probably were like the what, who, I remember the bell days and telecom and, and I remember the evolution of the telecommunications industry, as well. And so people in like, your position had to keep up with supporting the leaders through a ton of transition that was going on in the industry. I don’t know if you any pop up for you. But do you remember, like any of the trends or some of the things that your leaders constantly struggled with? And we’re like, I’m calling you on speed dial like, Hey, can you help me with this, that and the other, you know, what do you remember from those days?

Joyel Crawford  07:30

Everything, everything was on fire, like it was like always an emergency, you know,

Karan Rhodes  07:34

Right.  Always always. And as the company was rapidly growing, there was constantly huge rapid hiring, you know, where I would go to certain call centers, and we’d have these hiring Bonanzas, like where we would just have like people wrapped around buildings, you know, interviewing to fill up call centers, I mean, those, those were huge, you know, that was where it was constantly being pulled across the country to help open up, call centers and interview the voices that, you know, customers would end up hearing on the other line, and being able to have the honor to train them was phenomenal. But the thing that I kept hearing the most, throughout all the different types of roles that I had was all about effectively communicating with their team members, you know, leaders would call and they’re like, I’m having this, this trouble kind of getting this person to understand where I’m coming from? Or how do we communicate this change to the whole organization. And so I will be pulled in to help, you know, communicate, again, relocation packages and transition. So it was always transition and communication that that I found were key things that they were always tapping, tapping us for and training. So I love educating other people. So I had no problem just rolling up my sleeves. My other colleagues were like, Oh, I’d rather put a hot pin in my eyes and get in and talk. So I would just take their assignments and go and run with it. Oh, I love that. I love that. And you know, one of the I’ll just say, sister competencies to communication is delegation. Because when you’re having to delegate or in key tasks on track, if you will, it involves clear and communication clear direct communication. And I know that’s a interesting passion of yours that leaders are struggling with all the time. So I’d love to hear your thoughts on that whole quagmire when leaders are having to delegate and they’re dependent upon either direct or team members whether they be in person or virtual to get work done. What are some of the dynamics that you see with that? Well, in the area of delegation.

Joyel Crawford  09:55

I actually I tell this really funny story in my book, show your ask right You, and I talk about delegation. And one of the biggest things that I see come up is it’s a control issue. The reason why most leaders resist delegation is because they’re like, “Oh, I could get it done faster, myself,” right? That’s a control issue. And so the biggest challenge is letting go of that control. And I will, I mean, I always use myself as the perfect example. I was early on in my managing in, in the role of management and employee development, where I was in charge of all those leadership development programs. And so the head of HR and the head of learning and development came to me at the same time, so that I was like, Oh, my God, what’s going on, I’m in trouble. And they were like, We want you to design a engaging event for our whole entire HR organization, it’s going to be in two SEC sessions gonna be in the spring, and one in the summer. And we want you to create this huge engaging thing that really pulls in business acumen and sales and, and all of these things, and I really wasn’t really strong in and we’re, we’re gonna give you a team of people that are going to develop and design it. And it just just go with the joy, I’ll just go with it. And I was like, okay, and I knew this was a big deal. But I wanted to make sure I looked like a big deal. And so I had this wonderful team, and we laid out all of the processes, and we had raffles and giveaways and, and all these people and mentees, these people that were kind of coming up to me and asking me to mentor them, they wanted to be involved. So I pulled them in. And we all knew what our roles were, and get to the first session. And it just went sideways, like stuff was going sideways. And I head of HR looking at me and she goes, this isn’t looking good oil. And I was just like, oh, gosh, I was taking on everything I was handling, the sales slips weren’t right. So I’m running around handing out all the sales slips. And all people were just standing around, looking at me running around like a chicken with my head cut off because I wasn’t speaking to them, I wasn’t delegating any of the tasks to them or trusting them with doing the task. So at the end of that horrendous first session, the head of learning and development was just like, so that was an interesting event. What are you going to do? So to ensure that it’s, it’s a little smoother next time, and I had already had my plan. And I was just like, I’m going to use the team, the way I need to use them. So we talked about it, we had a kind of a post mortem conversation about what went on most people, the people that I had signed to certain tasks were enjoying themselves or drinking wine and having a good old time. So they had forgotten their roles. And so I said, let’s read, let’s you know, review what our roles are during this next event. And I need you all to help me because I don’t ask for help. So if you see me drowning, step in and do something, or tell me, Hey, this is I got this, you know, this is my job. And so I was able to communicate that and let go of that control. And the next session was wildly successful. People still had a good time at the first session, but the people were, you know, kind of in the background, they were like, This is a train wreck. But it turned out to be an amazing second session because I gave up control, everyone knew their roles where I trusted, that they knew what they were doing, I would check in with them regularly. And we were all successful in the process. And I owned up to it, I was transparent about my my weaknesses, my weaknesses, not giving up control. So I’m gonna need you to tell me to stay in my lane. And so that’s the whole thing with delegation is to though knights help you to yourself be true that you’ve got to be true to who you are as a leader and know what your weaknesses and your strengths are, and be willing to give up a little of the tight reins that you have, so that you can enjoy yourself too. I had a little glass of wine at the event that time on the second go around. So it was nice to be able to just release some of that controlling Victrola son kind of thing that you have on hold. And that really helps with delegation that makes it work.

Karan Rhodes  14:29

Oh my gosh, there’s just so many nuggets in that and it’s something that we all struggle with, right? Because when our names or reputations are on the line, it’s hard to become vulnerable and put your success in the hands of those that you’re you’re working with. And I have seen to the extreme delegation to the extreme where people get you know, delegated so much and weren’t involved that they couldn’t effectively lead because They didn’t know who was on first and who was on second. But what I saw that was different in your story is that you communicated to your team made sure every single person understood their role. So you all had that initial conversation, and then you had a comfort level level, a better comfort level to see how it played out. Am I way off base or…?

Joyel Crawford  15:24

Yes! It was fantastic. And, you know, cool is that it was such a success, that other departments came in and said, We want to use this for our team builders, for our departments. How did you do it? And so I was able to give them that blueprint and give them the heads up, make sure you delegate and you’re clear with your teams. So you don’t have the same thing that happened to me, happened to him. And it became like this wild, huge pool project program that that rolled out to different departments. And it was it was great success. So,

Karan Rhodes  15:58

Oh, that’s so amazing. Yeah, well, that was a nice entre into your book. And I “Show Your Ask,” of which I have a copy, I must say I went and purchased it. It’s wonderful. Wonderful. But if you can share with the audience a little bit about your why you wrote the book, show your ask, and maybe a quick overview or a teaser for what is contained there in and how it can be beneficial to them.

Joyel Crawford  16:27

Well, the end, thank you for helping me plug my book. I wrote it because everyone throughout my career throughout the 18 years, and actually, you know, I’ve been in business for nine years as a as a consultant. But everyone always asked me, how did you get from where you were to where you are now. And every step of that way, I was asking, or I was advocating for myself and my career. And so I wanted to put all of these nuggets of knowledge and things where I showed up for myself in a book so that it can help other people. And it also gives you an opportunity to kind of sit back and reflect on how these lessons I learned impact your life and how you can apply them in your life and your career as well. How do you speak up? In an interview? Like how do you really, you know, strongly position yourself for that next role or promotion? How do you negotiate for yourself? What happens if you lose your voice? You know, what can you glean from that experience? So there’s a whole bunch of things that delegation stories in there and how to delegate appropriately. So there’s all these little tips and tools throughout the course of your career, whether you’re new to your career, or in the middle of it, these are all life lessons learned that you can apply and take actionable steps in advocating and speaking up for yourself and showing your ask, ASK, versus the other alternative.

Karan Rhodes  18:00

Yes! You know, you’re so right. Your so right. And, you know, I’ll just say it, this is a moment of vulnerability for myself, I will say I felt extremely comfortable in a corporate environment, showing my ask, I don’t know exactly why. But when I switched to, you know, founding a firm, and then, you know, dealing with clients directly, because I was the executive at one point that, you know, vendors and partners wanted to, you know, talk to and be with, and then being on the other end of the coin, you know, trying to make sure, you know, we were top of mind when you know, companies needed services. It was a whole different space for me. And so I’m curious, with all the great knowledge and stories that you write about in your book. How has it been? How has it been showing your ask? When you founded Crawford Leadership Strategies?

Joyel Crawford  19:02

Ooh, you let me tell you the when when you say your own brand, versus an internationally well known brand, and people are like, what’s the craft or leadership strategy?

Karan Rhodes  19:13

Yeah, exactly.

Joyel Crawford  19:16

What I would say…

Karan Rhodes  19:18

They know what Verizon is, they know Microsoft, but they’re like, “Okay, now who are you?”

Joyel Crawford  19:21

Yeah, like to work under the guise of that brand. And then to go in and tell you know, I’m all proud of it, you know, because I’m, you know, you’re the founder. And then people are like, what, what is that? And it’s a little humbling to not have the shine of, of that, that that well known brand. And so it took a while for me to not feel like I didn’t deserve to be in these rooms in these spaces and places. Yeah, I may not be a multibillion dollar company yet, but Do you want to work with me because I have experience in working with folks and, and skills and things that I developed for those multibillion dollar organizations, right? So I have the experience, I may not have the brand recognition yet, but you want to work with me because I have the experience. And so in showing my ask, I would share my journey, you know, I worked for 18 years, and this is what I did. And this is what I love to do. I love growing leaders for a living, and this is how I do it. And people really started to connect with my why. And so when I’m showing my ask, I set this intention of collaboration support, instead of I need to get client, I need to get client, you know that that negative energy almost like when we were dating back in the day with Kara when we were like going out and trying to get the numbers and give our nine out. And I was thinking to myself, who needs my help in this room? Is that was a different mindset shift from I need to get the clients we need to get the clients and showing my ask was how can I help support you? What do you need help with in your organization? And when I changed it from from getting to giving, it changed me showing my ask that whole perspective change. Networking wasn’t hard anymore? Because it was more of who needs my help today? How can I help them.

Karan Rhodes  21:32

Love that. Absolutely love that. Also, you know, as you know, I wrote the book. “Lead at the Top of Your Game,” and in that we talk about a lot of leadership tactics and approaches to really up your game when you’re executing as a leader. And what I love to always ask our guests is out of the seven that we wrote about that the research said were the the top most critical ones was there one out of the seven that, you know resonated or stood out for you?

Joyel Crawford  22:01

Yeah, strategic decision making really stood out for me.

Karan Rhodes  22:06

Oh, tell me more…

Joyel Crawford  22:07

I have a I didn’t know it at the time. But I was coaching people from probably for about 15, 16 years, while I was at Verizon Wireless. And beyond. And I thought about it, that there is a process that I would walk people through whenever I was dealing with leaders leading their teams better or, or what have you. And it was it’s as it’s a methodology called rise, and it’s reflecting, identifying, strategizing and executing. And I would walk them through this not knowing that I was helping them rise to the next level to the next position in confidence in you know, once they’ve gotten some type of performance evaluation that they didn’t like. But I think strategic decision making is such a key skill set for us to walk our leaders through. And I unbeknownst to me was planting those seeds and helping those leaders strategically make those decisions by first reflecting on what the situation is identifying what skills or tools they needed, in order to be more successful, then let’s strategize a plan and how we’re going to lay that out what steps are we going to take to make sure that in an example of somebody getting a below average performance rating, what are we going to do in order to make sure that never happens again? What steps are you going to take and then let’s execute let’s take some actions so I would hold the people that came to me all my strategic business partners who come to me let’s execute so I kept them accountable let what date are you going to get this done by when are you going to follow up with me when you’re gonna follow up with the person that interviewed you? So I was helping them rise through each of those different seasons within their career without even knowing it but now I just put an acronym to to that to those steps. And I really think that that is so key when you are leading a team or even just leading yourself sometimes you got to take a step back and rise to get the energy to to deal with the team or the problem child or whatever it is that you did the the relocation or the unfortunate, you know, with strategic you know, what are we calling them now when we’re changing? What do we call the restructuring? Reorg?

Karan Rhodes  24:33

Oh, yes restricting, realignments, reorg, you pick a verb.

Joyel Crawford  24:38

Pretty word for layoff. Right? You know, we always had to paint nice pictures over like  Oh a “restructuring”

Karan Rhodes  24:40

“Restructuring”

Joyel Crawford  24:45

Yeah. So, you know, the strategic decision making is such it’s not a soft skill. It’s a hard skill to power skill. And that really struck could be as one of the one of the super skills that you outline in your book.

Karan Rhodes  24:45

We did! Oh, thank you, thank you so much for sharing. And you know, I would be remiss if I did not also plug your show career view mirror. So you all up, they’ll know about a better google it and learn about it because it is awesome. And you’ve had so many fantastic guests on there. And I’m just curious to say that No. But I mean, you’ve talked and heard so many stories with your guests. And I’m just curious. And if you don’t have an answer for this, this is fine. But I’m just curious, if you’re seeing anything different these days, that your guests are struggling with, with their careers, than pre pandemic? Is there anything big now of what they’re having to deal with, versus what some of the trends that you heard, you know, previously,

Joyel Crawford  26:01

I think a lot of my clients tend to feel more comfortable revealing some of the microaggressions that they’ve been dealing with, for some reason, the pandemic has kind of a woken awoken awakened, a lot of different types of behaviors that may have been kind of underlying and kind of, you know, not really seen nefarious, but now people are kind of wide open about how you feel and think, and that’s fine, you know, but, you know, I say this all the time, freedom of speech doesn’t mean freedom from consequences. And so I’m helping them manage through those microaggressions. But also, I think, instead of the great resignation, I’m noticing a great kind of realization, I think a lot of my clients are realizing that their talents and skills maybe use elsewhere, or could be appreciated in in different in different fashions. And so helping them come up with a job search campaign, or were articulating their skill sets, that seems to be those seem to be the two big, big things that I’m hearing a lot of is is taking my taking all of my transferable skills, and how can I move them someplace else? Because I feel like my value is not being respected where I am. But also how do I deal with somebody who’s just really, I really feel like they’re really out to get me and I’m like, well, they’re our staff. So you know, like, you know, like, let’s, let’s go back to the HR fundamentals here. So really working in civil workplaces, you know, those types of things, and how to manage those those relationships and communicate with micromanagers. And, and things of that nature are things that I’ve been seeing a lot more of.

Karan Rhodes  27:57

You know, it, you’re, you’re spot on on that, because I spoke at a global talent summit at Gallup a few months ago, and we were discussing the shift right now, with companies focusing more on skills versus degrees. Not that they don’t appreciate or less than the value of degrees, but because of the way the industries have been changing. Across the world, especially with advances in technology, companies are really focused on those most critical skills that are needed within their company and industry, versus a mandate that you have to have a degree in X, Y, and Z. So that whole focus on skills makes a ton of sense to me. Makes a ton of sense to me.

Joyel Crawford  28:49

And I think a lot of things that I work with clients on is them realizing that they have the skills within them, I think yeah, they get so entrenched in the day to day that they think that their skills are only useful where they are and I even got caught up in that when I when I left to start my business you know, like I was like, I only know how to do this here but then I realized no you have skills and abilities that can translate to other functions and groups and industries and so it’s believing in yourself and really celebrating those skills and and and really highlighting them you’re accomplishment.

Karan Rhodes  29:27

And taking the leap to try it out right even if you have a fear of falling on your face but just try it and see.

Joyel Crawford  29:35

You gotta try! ou don’t know unless you try!

Karan Rhodes  29:36

That’s right, well, before I let you go we got to do our final segment is called Full Disclosure. And I promise you there’s no guarantee but we like to take a fun peek into some of your the things you like to do or some of your preferences and habits. So my first question to you Joyel is what was your very first job ever out of high school high school? Well, it could be in high school.

Joyel Crawford  30:04

My very first job because I did have a job before high school and it was babysitting and I didn’t know it at the time but I had like a little like babysitting racket going on like it was like a babysit and a couple kids down the block and accumulating a lot of wealth that was like in eighth grade nice to have like have a schedule and have my own checking account and everything like that was that was pretty big time. So I was I would say it was an entrepreneur at the very beginning. I guess caregiving is in my blood. So

Karan Rhodes  30:35

it sounds like it, definitely All right, my my next question is let me let us analyze what will be your ideal meal so first, what is your favorite appetizer when you go out?

Joyel Crawford  30:50

Favorite appetizer when I go out? I have to think about this because it’s been a minute since I’ve been out a lot you know like we’re still kind keeping out. But I will say I absolutely love a charcuterie board you know me oh yeah, cheeses and I’m a little gherkin and then the little fancy almonds. Yeah, I love me a charcuterie board.

Karan Rhodes  31:15

All right, what is a favorite entree? They can be? Yeah, anything.

Joyel Crawford  31:20

I love seafood. So it’s gotta be anything crustacean, like shrimp or lobster or both, crab legs. Oh, you can’t tell me…anything. Give me some good Alaskan crab legs and some butter. Good to go.

Karan Rhodes  31:36

All right. And finally, if you’d like dessert, what would be your favorite dessert?

Joyel Crawford  31:41

Anything chocolate. So chocolate. I love chocolate. Or I think or go ahead and good glass of wine. I will say the wine. You know when you said appetizer? The first thing you said was wine. I was like

Karan Rhodes  31:58

Well, you know we think outside the box here, we live outside the box. So it can be. It is for me because I don’t like desserts that much. I think I’m the only female on this Earth that doesn’t like chocolate. But yeah.

Joyel Crawford  32:14

That’s ok! What kind of just what would your dessert be? Would it be a glass of wine? Or would it be…

Karan Rhodes  32:19

it would probably either be a glass of wine or? I would never order dessert on my own. I might aks for a fork full from my daughter or my husband. But if I were absolutely forced to eat something sweeter, maybe it would be a cheese cake. Maybe…

Joyel Crawford  32:37

Okay, so you’re like my husband. He loves cheese? I like the cake. It’s not cheese cake. Like the ones like at Cheesecake Factory that have like chunks of cookie or like peanut butter. Oh. Very little bit of cheese cake with?

Karan Rhodes  32:50

Yes in there. Is there anything else in there? No, I hear you. I’m actually an ideal dessert for me would be cheese and crackers. Yeah, more savory. Like you’re appetizer for dessert. So yeah, I could do that too. I could you could do that all day. Well, we’ll have to make a date one of these days and ever. We’re back in the same city. It will definitely did that. Stick I would love love. Thank you so much Joyel for your time today and for being on the leader, the top of your game podcast. We absolutely love having thank you so much for having me, Karan. Awesome. Well, listeners, hopefully you I know you’ve enjoyed this episode because it has, in my opinion been fantastic and one of our best episodes ever. We thank you so much for listening to us. Please feel free to like or subscribe the podcast on your favorite podcast platform of choice. Also, please share with a friend. I’m sure they can get love some of the leadership nuggets that our guests provide, as well. You know, as we could use the additional listeners, we’d love to get our message out and give the gifts of knowledge out to those across the globe who are interested. Thank you so much again for listening and see you next episode. Bye bye. Well, I hope you enjoyed our conversation today with Joyel Crawford, founder and CEO of Crawford Leadership Strategies. Links to her bio, her entry into our leadership playbook, and additional resources can be found both in the show notes on your favorite podcast platform of choice, and on our website at lead your game podcast.com And now for Karan’s take on today’s topic of delegation. And as you all are aware, in my book “Lead at the Top of Your Game,” I outlined the top seven tactics related to optimal leadership execution. And did you know that delegation is one of the sub-competenciesof the tactic of leading with a drive for results? Leading with the drive for results is all about your ability to be tenacious about achieving your goals. matter do you have to pivot along the way. And if you’re leading a team, your ability to delegate tasks appropriately to those with the skills to do a fantastic job can lead to the success or failure of your initiative. And I want to share with you a great tip from Harvard Business Review. It was a tool that I read called practice saying yes or no, in Yes, this is all about the art and science of being selective. It’s not reasonable, realistic or healthy to commit to every opportunity that comes your way. So I encourage you to be discerning with your time. Start by carefully assessing every demand that comes your way. And cherry pick the ASCE which most aligned with your areas of expertise, you sit should say yes to these. But for those requests that don’t quite align, you say yes. And you follow the word of when you’re asked to them, say yes, if you are permitted to immediately identify other people to help accomplish the goals through their direct involvement. You may still consult with them, motivate them and lead them. But you’re going to be essential as the catalyst, but not as the muscle is doing the heavy lifting to getting the task done. Now, they’re if they say, No, no, they’re not willing to allow you additional resources. And this might be the time that you say no as well. This discerning approach may mean delegating some tasks to others, right? Negotiate in a reduction of your direct contribution, or just say no all together while making the business case for why your efforts and attention will have a greater impact elsewhere. So give it a try. And let me know how it worked out for you by sending a note to me either on LinkedIn, or at the email podcast at shockingly different.com. And if you’re listening to the show, you all know that we don’t charge for the show. But it’s not free either. Our only ask for you is an honor of a pact amongst us friends, for you to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform of choice and share with just one friend about the podcast. I think that’s a great deal, don’t you? Well, thanks again for listening and being part of our late at the top of your game community. And see you next week. And that’s our show for today. Thank you for listening to the lead at the top of your game podcast where we help you lead your seat at any employer, business or industry in which you choose to play. You can check out the show notes, additional episodes, bonus resources, and also submit guest recommendations on our website at lead your game podcast.com You can follow me on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn by searching for the name Karan Rhodes with Karan being spelled k r a n. 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