Episode 33 | Resiliency Matters! The Key to Mental Health in the Workplace with Michelle E. Dickinson

Michelle E. Dickinson  00:00

When I was diagnosed with my own depression, I was met with a less than supportive leader in that space. You know, like when I found the courage to disclose I’m dealing with depression, have to go see my therapist, I might be late, I apologize. It wasn’t really met with a lot of compassion. So that was what ignited the fire under me to say, “Oh, my gosh, we have to do more. We have to do more for people leaders.” These are the face of the organization and if they don’t demonstrate empathy and compassion for what their people are dealing with then we’ve missed the mark. Regardless of whatever policies or remit we have.

Karan Rhodes  00:38

Welcome to the “Lead at the Top of Your Game” podcast, where we equip you to more effectively lead your seat at any employer, business, or industry in which you choose to play. Each week, we help you sharpen your leadership acumen by cracking open the playbooks of dynamic leaders who are doing big things in their professional endeavors. And now, your host, leadership tactics, and organizational development expert, Karan Ferrell-Rhodes. Hey there, there superstars This is Karan and welcome to today’s episode. You know, the topic of mental health in the workplace has become much more of an acceptable conversation in today’s world as compared to just five years ago. However, you know, individuals still struggle with how to have conversations with their bosses and co-workers. And I found that leaders frequently feel nervous and and equipped on how to have such conversations with their staff in a very meaningful way. Well, fear no more because on today’s show, I’m honored to have Michelle E. Dickinson, founder of Trifecta Mental Health, where she is a resilience coach and a workplace resilience strategist. Michelle will share the basis of her passion around mental health and her journey from family caretaker to mental health advocate at her pharmaceutical company employer, to founding her own firm focused on mental health in the workplace. She will share tips on how to build trust in order to have a safe space for teams to have such conversations about mental health and burnout. And be sure to stay tuned for just two minutes after the episode to listen to my closing segment called Karan’s tape, where I share a tip on how to use insights from today’s episode to further sharpen your leadership acumen. And now enjoy the show. Hey there superstars This is Karan and welcome to today’s episode of the Lead at the Top of Your Game podcast. I am pleased to have a very special guest with us today. Her name is Michelle E. Dickinson. I remember the age because there’s a nother person out there that’s trying to clone her and we’re not gonna let that as Michelle at Dickinson, she is a resilience coach. And she specializes both in personal resiliency and resiliency in the workplace. And she’s also the leader of a company called Trifecta Mental Health. And she’s gonna tell us I’m sure a little bit more about that. But welcome to the podcast. Michelle,

Michelle E. Dickinson  03:21

thank you so much for having me, Karan,

Karan Rhodes  03:22

it’s a pleasure to be here is such a pleasure to have you. And I was sharing with Michelle listeners right before we started recording that I really zoned in on trying to get her on the podcast because as you all know as leader is being resilient is one of the most critical things that will help empower you as a leader, whether it’s a leader in your personal life or your business life. And so any tips and tricks that we all can get on resiliency would be fantastic. And Michelle is an expert on that. She’s also a TEDx speaker, so you definitely will need to check her out. I will have the links in the show notes. But I’m sure she has some you know, thoughts about that for us and resiliency, all those important sometimes it’s very tough, and I’m sure she’s going to explain. So Michelle, before we peel back the layers of the onion on resiliency for as much as you feel comfortable. Would you mind sharing just a little bit about the personally?

Michelle E. Dickinson  04:22

Yeah, for sure. For sure. So as you said, I work in resilience. This is my passion. And I spent about ninteen years working in a corporate role in the pharmaceutical industry. I live in New Jersey, so we are the medicine chest.

Karan Rhodes  04:36

Yes, you are.

Michelle E. Dickinson  04:38

So I’ve worked at a variety of different pharma companies for about 19 years before I was invited to give my TED talk. And I had been in a quality management role. The last role that I held in my company, my fortune 500 company and colleague found out about my story growing up with my mom who had bipolar disorder, and she nominated me to give a TED Talk about it. And I was I was selected and then gave the talk about my mom. And it was something that I never really shared with anyone. It was just sort of my backstory, right. So but that was really a turning point for me a big turning point because I got connected to the power of storytelling and like the relatedness that gets created when you just open up and tell your story, people can see little threads in themselves in your story. So after delivering that talk, I was incredibly inspired by the reaction to write my memoir. So I wrote my memoir, then I became an advocate for mental health, because I knew that through more open dialogue, we could remove some of the stigma, we would help people who were suffering in silence get supported, and so so yeah, and along the way, I would be diagnosed with depression going through divorce, which was extremely challenging, I would help to build the largest, fastest growing ERG for mental health and my former company, so instrumental in that in what it takes to create culture change around mental health and creating more compassion. And so I took a leap of faith and started my own company, because I wanted to be part of the change. I thought, you know, if I could do this in a in this company, what can I do if I took my story, my knowledge about creating compassion in the workplace and created a practice and did that for other organizations. So I did that, and then found myself really leaning into the resilience conversation, because I was really more concerned about people understanding what they can be doing proactively to take care of themselves. And so really leveraging my healing journey, and what it took for me to take care of myself and preserve my mental health, I built my resilience practice, my workshops, and my coaching practice.

Karan Rhodes  06:46

Wow, that sounds amazing. And you’ve got to be resilient yourself. Because you’ve gotten here, you’ve made the transition from corporate into your own business similar to me. And I know that journey, that red thread, passes through the mics, definitely, to me, so I do understand. Well, congratulations on your success thus far, I’m sure you have more success coming your way. And I’m curious, Michelle, you know, I’m not quite sure how long ago it was when you started your practice. But, you know, it hasn’t been honestly until kind of recently, that acceptance of mental health and challenges has been more in mainstream conversations than before. To your point, there was kind of a stigma and still is, to some degree now. But um, at least people are more open to talking to it, about it, I should say. So how did your company embrace you wanting to advocate for mental health?

Michelle E. Dickinson  07:43

You know, it’s always interesting, you know, your culture and accompany is really a reflection of your leaders. Right? So we had a, you know, a remit at the top of the organization saying we were going to be a stigma-free organization, we were putting things in place to create that effort behind that statement, and those policies, and there were some missteps along the way, like you learn as you go through, like, well, what, what do we think is going to create more compassion, more understanding, more comfort for people to talk more openly about these situations to create that safe space? You know, trust is a really important thing. The ERG was huge in creating a community of people that could come together, rally around one another support one another, whether they were struggling, or they had loved ones they were caring for at home. So that was really big. And I witnessed the level of support that was being provided peer to peer, you know, and sort of representing that hope that if you could get through to the other side of a some type of a mental health challenge than I can, and that was really beautiful thing, you know, so but with any organization, your policies and your vision, and your commitment really is it lands in the hands of the leaders and that lands in their demonstration of that as well. So while we were doing a lot of good, you know, when I was diagnosed with my own depression, I was met with a less than supportive leader in that space. When I was diagnosed with my own depression, I was met with a less than supportive leader in that space. You know, like when I found the courage to disclose I’m dealing with depression, have to go see my therapist, I might be late, I apologize. It wasn’t really met with a lot of compassion. So that was what ignited the fire under me to say, “Oh, my gosh, we have to do more. We have to do more for people leaders.” These are the face of the organization and if they don’t demonstrate empathy and compassion for what their people are dealing with then we’ve missed the mark. Regardless of whatever policies or remit we have. So it was a fascinating experience, and one that was really instrumental in me wanting to be part of the change outside of the company.

Karan Rhodes  09:51

I love that. I love that story. Because especially in very high pressured industries, such as pharma. I mean, I came from tech in engineering, back in the day, I’m probably telling how old I am. But it just wasn’t as accepted, you just almost couldn’t even bring that part of yourself to work at all. You kind of had to handle it outside because you were thought of less than, if you will. And if you really wanted back then, I was young, and one of the climb the corporate ladder, that would be definitely a hindrance. Like I could understand that. Did you see that as well? Oh, absolutely.

Michelle E. Dickinson  10:28

I mean, you wouldn’t be considered for opportunities that maybe your peers would, because you had like a mental instability or a moment where you needed a pause, right? So and it’s really kind of crazy, because now I know so many people who are such an incredibly accomplished professionals who have a mental illness who are navigating that and they’re successful. So we really have to educate people that just because someone has a challenge, a mental health challenge, it doesn’t mean they’re less qualified or incapable of handling, you know, stress or pressure. We have to just move beyond that. And have people understand that

Karan Rhodes  11:05

definitely, definitely. So. So tell us what’s a typical day in the life of a resilience coach? What does a resilience coach actually do? And I know you have to keep some things come from confidential, but he give us a high level?

Michelle E. Dickinson  11:19

Yeah, it’s a very interesting thing. I did a recent survey across all of my coaching clients, right now I have, I have quite a few. I think I’m upward of 55 coaching clients actively right now.

Karan Rhodes  11:33

Oh, my gosh, Michelle,

Michelle E. Dickinson  11:35

It’s a lot. And I’m in the process of scaling my company to be able to extend more of this to other people. But when I did that survey, what I learned was when people had come to me, they fundamentally had lost a sense of joy. And that just made me sad. It made me so sad that we have so many people who have lost and it could be a fallout from the pandemic, we’ve lost some of the joy we had going into the you know, like that we had before the pandemic. And then we had all of these burdens in these losses, these the magnitude of loss that we experienced, from life, to routine to financial footing to relationships, so much loss has occurred, that so many of my clients, they were coming with a lack of joy, they were feeling emotional drag, they diverge on the cusp of burnout. And so one of the things that I am really keen about is like, what can we do to help restore some of that joy, we all as human beings deserve a sense of joy and happiness in our life. And so I sort of make it my business to, to really get to that. So how do I help people? I’m really, in two ways focused; I’m focused on what are you doing every day? What are your daily habits and practices? But then the other piece of that is, what’s your mindset? You know, if you believe you can, you can, if you believe you can’t, you can’t. So people need to recognize it’s twofold what you do your practices every single day, either fill your emotional well being bucket, or they pull away from it. But so many people don’t know that the little things they’re doing are actually, you know, it’s pulling away from that emotional well being bucket. And then the mindset, the mind can be our greatest asset or our greatest liability. So I’m tackling resilience coaching from those two angles. I’m focusing on let’s look at your day to day practices. And now let’s look at what your self talk is. And let’s look at how you see life. What is your perspective on life? Is life happening for you? Or is life happening to you? Let’s talk about that. So that’s really my sort of like approach when it comes to helping people restore balance, preserve their well being and restore joy.

Karan Rhodes  13:46

Oh, I love that. And I’m just curious, because resiliency is such a personal thing to individuals, do you find your clients have a tough time talking about it, or they’re ashamed in any kind of way, or, or by the time they come to you, they’re so eager for some help, they just want to spit it all out, you know, and get support.

Michelle E. Dickinson  14:07

So, it’s a very interesting thing, because I have a lot of educators that I’ve been coaching lately, a lot of educators we have, we have a crisis in education, where a lot of educators are so overwhelmed. They’re just leaving their profession and like, I’m like, Oh, my goodness, think about our children, right? So a lot of the educators that come to me are on the brink of burnout, like they literally get on the calls with me and they’re they’re breaking down in tears, and you just see the despair in their face. And it’s really quite sad. The other group of people that come to me, they’re coming to me because I’m a coach. I’m not a clinician and a clinician for a lot of people is very intimidating. So I have no problem saying, “Hey, let me tell you my story of depression. Let me tell you my experience of, you know, hitting a low point in my entrepreneurial career and like not feeling like I wanted to get out of bed like let me tell you that piece of it because that’s going to make you realize you’re just as human as I am. And we’re related, just fundamentally by our by our existence of being human beings, you know.” So I create that bridge to help them feel comfortable. So I haven’t had someone get on a call with me where they don’t feel comfortable because I really, I create all that space and create that environment so that it’s completely safe for them to just share so that I can provide the most value that I can.

Karan Rhodes  15:25

Gosh, I love that. And I know that you also have workshops, right that you do for organizations, what maybe is one tool or tip or framework that you teach in when you’re workshops that you wouldn’t mind sharing with the audience.

Michelle E. Dickinson  15:40

So yeah, so I teach to workshops, and I learned early on when I was building my workshops, I wanted to teach resilience for employees. But that’s half of the puzzle, what we really need to be doing coming out of COVID is retraining or equipping people leaders with strategies to better support staff that they suspect might be struggling. So my People Leader Program is really the program that has gotten the most attention and has gotten the most positive feedback because we can’t expect leaders to know exactly how to handle a post-pandemic world when it comes to the magnitude of mental health challenges. So if you just get present to the numbers, one in three dealing with anxiety or depression right now, so one in three of your staff probably have something they’re dealing with, they may or may not divulge that. You look at those sheer numbers, you have got to know how do I lead effectively in a post pandemic world? And am I equipped to do that? Well, one of the first things I first conversations that I’m having in my People Leader Workshop is what’s your own relationship to mental health comes down to the unconscious bias conversation, we all have those unconscious biases it holds true for mental health. My lens is very different than your lens, I grew up with a mother where mental illness was right in my face, but the average person may not have had that experience and might perceive mental illness as a cop out. So we have to help our leaders get present to their own relationship to mental health, and then how they are modeling good mental health hygiene and what they’re doing to create a safe space for their people to just honor their how they’re feeling emotionally.

Karan Rhodes  17:19

And these are group work in a group. Right. So are there tips that you give people leaders on how to start the conversation with their teams?

Michelle E. Dickinson  17:29

Yeah, there are quite a few tips. I think, you know, one of the things that I always encourage leaders to realize is they may be the only person that has the courage to go there. Don’t assume that someone else is going to care for a struggling employee, you might literally be the only person that has the courage to say how are you doing? And I think we have so much trepidation in living in such a litigious world that I don’t want to say the wrong thing. I don’t want to overstep, I don’t want to get myself in trouble. I don’t want to be too invasive. Listen, the simplest thing you can do is be generous with your listening and create an opening. So simply put, how are you doing? I know you to be this personality every day of the week, but man the past week, I’m not seeing that person. Are you okay? And then just shut up and listen, create an opening for them. If and if they want to share with you, they will share with you. And if they don’t, they will at least know the door has been open for them if they want to talk.

Karan Rhodes  18:32

Oh, I love that. Absolutely love that. And, you know, it makes me think though, I bet there’s a lot of rich discussions that happened when you do your workshops. But I’m bet a key piece of that is follow-up in self care. So I’m assuming and correct me if I’m wrong, I am assuming you ask corporations to consider maybe follow-up one on one coaching with the individuals, especially those who need that, because it’s not a one and done type of situation. Correct?

Michelle E. Dickinson  19:01

Yeah, I mean, like you the perfect formula is you teach the the people leaders, the resilient strategies, you teach the employees, so they can then have a joint conversation of well, what are you doing of the tips that we’ve learned in Michelle’s workshop? What are you doing? Oh, well, this is what I’m doing. You have that conversation going on. And then you have the leaders equipped to know how to look for a struggling staff member. And then but I also do refresh sessions because it’s not a one and done you have to keep this conversation going. So I will hit them every month for like six months with let’s talk about certain topics that we talked about in the main workshop, but really dive deeply into those. And let’s talk about how are you doing with your practices? What are the hurdles you’re having? What are the struggles you’re having what’s worked well for you? And then we have those follow up engagements because we want to see sustained change and in order to do that, you have to start to keep that conversation on the surface making more normal and more common that we’re just this, we’re just here. We’re whole people we can’t be expected to not, you know, leave that part of ourselves at home.

Karan Rhodes  20:09

That’s right. And, Michelle, as you know, I always love to ask my guests, which of the leadership tactics that I write about in my book really popped for you. And this is the timing’s kind of perfect right now, based on what you just said, of you pointed out that you love courageous agility, which is all about leading by standing up for what you believe in, even if the feature is unclear. And that’s probably a key piece of being a strong leader as connected with resiliency. But I’d love to hear from your words, how does courageous agility resonate with you,

Michelle E. Dickinson  20:45

It takes courageous leadership to create a trusting and safe and compassionate environment. And when we think about a courageous leader, I think about that leader that’s not too proud to acknowledge that they’re human with some of the best examples I’ve seen with my clients are leaders who are willing to divulge a time in their life when they struggled that makes it real, that makes them human. And that subliminally gives their people permission to honor if they’re dealing with something that takes true courage to be vulnerable. But it sends a huge positive message and demonstrates what his compassion and trust look like in the workplace.

Karan Rhodes  21:28

Absolutely. I think that’s why that Brene Browns books got to be so popular, because it was the time when she wrote this, we didn’t really talk about it. But it really resonated on you know, how you can use vulnerability to make those connections and to deepen trust?

Michelle E. Dickinson  21:45

Oh, yeah, it has to happen every day. You know, it’s funny, people say to me, how do you create a compassionate workplace? Or how do you expect me to go Go and tell people about my mental illness? I’m like, Well, I don’t expect you to do that. If your environment isn’t such that you feel safe, that it is compassionate, that you have a trusting rapport with your with your leaders. Nobody’s going to want to talk about that, though. So trust is a garden that we have to attend every day. So God forbid, when something occurs, there is that rapport where people don’t feel like they have to hide it or run away or lie or, you know, whatever. Like we have to be tending that trust every single day leader to employee employee to leader.

Karan Rhodes  22:27

That’s right. I definitely agree. I definitely agree. Well, Michelle, I don’t want you to leave out of here before you share. What did you talk? What was the topic of your TED talk?

Michelle E. Dickinson  22:37

it was about my mom, I share the story of what it was like to grow up with my mom and care for her throughout her manic and depressive phases of bipolar disorder.

Karan Rhodes  22:47

And then how how you cared for her and how you dealt with it as well? Oh wow.

Michelle E. Dickinson  22:52

Yeah, for sure. The impact that had on me too. I mean, like, the book goes into that, obviously, much more expansive, but the impact that that has, when one family member suffers from a mental illness, the whole family unit is affected?

Karan Rhodes  23:04

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I had an uncle who had severe dementia, but in the early stages, we weren’t sure kind of what to do to help him keep his dignity, because he still was had enough consciousness to know, you know, what’s going on. But then, you know, as the disease progressed, you know, it’s it’s very tough on family and friends and colleagues and co workers and found ourselves you know, as caregivers, because we have a close family and everybody kind of chipped in, you know, we had to figure out what we needed to do to stay present. And you can easily go into depression as a caregiver yourself, you know, how do we be resilient through those kinds of challenges? So definitely understand what you’re talking about. And so I’m curious for you, Michelle, I mean, you do so much in helping others, what does it take for you to lead at the top of your own game? What do you do for yourself? What’s key for you?

Michelle E. Dickinson  24:04

Let me tell you, it’s so funny that you ask that question, because like, I would be a fraud if I wasn’t doing what I tell people to do. And so I literally do what I tell my coaching clients to do. I have a very disciplined self care approach, where I’m constantly aware of what I’m doing every day, like every morning, I get up and I practice gratitude, and I meditate and then I make sure that I am exercising every day and making sure I’m getting outside every day. Like I have got to make self care a priority for me just so that I can show up the best version of me for my clients. If I’m depleted, I’m of no value to them. And if I’m not walking the walk, how do I expect them to do the same? So I have to if I want to show up and I want to continue to make a bigger and broader impact in the world, I have to take care of myself.

Karan Rhodes  24:58

Do you still do and what is one way that you like to decompress?

Michelle E. Dickinson  25:04

Korean spas.

Karan Rhodes  25:06

Really? Oh my goodness, I love spas. I’ve just gotten hooked on knowing what Korean spas were is the differentiating factor from a girlfriend. So tell me why you love Korean spas has.

Michelle E. Dickinson  25:20

Because, you know, Korean spas. It’s kind of like a smorgasbord of relaxation. So I go there, I take my phone, I lock it in my locker, I spend hours in the saunas, then I go in the hot tubs then I’ll do like a body scrub, then I’ll just sort of chill out and have like a juice and it’s just complete disconnection. And I’m sweating out all those toxins. It’s just so good. I whenever I walk out of there, I just feel like a brand new woman.

Karan Rhodes  25:50

Oh, I can only imagine. I just have regular day spas. And but I just I can only imagine the full experience at the Korean spa. So that’s on my my bucket list. So I’m gonna have to try to definitely do that.

Michelle E. Dickinson  26:04

You got to get past the nudity part.

Karan Rhodes  26:08

Yes, that’s my problem. And I’m a curvy gal. So like, okay, but I hear that people aren’t even caring. They’re just real into their own world.

Michelle E. Dickinson  26:17

We’re the ones that have the issue. No one cares.

Karan Rhodes  26:22

No one cares. Well, listen, there’s if you have a chance, and you should make it a priority to connect with Michelle, you definitely will have all her contact info in the show notes. You already know because of this podcast, what to give her as a thank you gift, a gift certificate to a Korean spa in her area of the world. Well, thank you so much, Michelle, for the gift of your time and the sharing of the tips with our listeners. You have been absolutely fantastic.

Michelle E. Dickinson  26:53

Thank you so much for having me, Karan.

Karan Rhodes  26:54

Oh, you’re so welcome. Hope you enjoyed our conversation today with Michelle E. Dickinson, founder of Trifecta mental health links to her bio her entry into our leadership playbook. And additional resources can be found in the show notes both on your favorite podcast platform of choice, and on the website at www.leadyourgamepodcast.com. And now for Karen’s take on today’s topic of the role of mental health in the workplace. You know, according to the CDC, nearly one in five adults aged 18 or older reported a mental illness and 71% of adults reported at least one symptom of stress, such as a headache or feeling overwhelmed or anxious. And that is only those who reported it. Can you imagine how many go unreported, poor mental health and stress can negatively affect employee job performance and productivity, their engagement at work, their communication with coworkers, and even physical capability and daily functioning. Depression interferes with a person’s ability to complete, you know, job tasks and about 20% of the time, it also impacts cognitive performance. Only 57% of employees who report moderate depression, and 40% of those who report severe depression, receive treatment to control their depression symptoms. So what can you do as a leader or an employer? Well, the big thing is that you can promote awareness about the importance of mental health and stress management. You can do this by making mental health assessment tools available to all of your employees. You can offer free or subsidized clinical screenings for depression from a qualified mental health professional. You can ensure your health insurance provides a low or no cost services and covers depression medications and mental health counseling. And you can also provide seminars and workshops in the workplace that address depression and stress management techniques. If you need additional guidance to plan a strategy, feel free to reach out to Michelle, our guest on today’s show. Or even to me here at Shockingly Different Leadership, and we’ll get you pointed in the right direction. Also, please remember to subscribe to the podcast and share with at least one of your friends. There’ll be a ton more resources in the show notes regarding mental health and well being. And thanks for listening and see you next week. And that’s our show for today. Thank you for listening to the lead at the top of your game podcast, where we help you lead your seat at any employer, business, or industry in which you choose to play. You can check out the show notes, additional episodes, and bonus resources, and also submit guest recommendations on our website at leadyourgamepodcast.com. You can follow me on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn by searching for the name Karan Rhodes with Karan being spelled K a r a n. And if you like the show, the greatest gift you can give would be to subscribe and leave a rating on your podcast platform of choice. This podcast has been a production of Shockingly Different Leadership, a global consultancy which helps organizations execute their people, talent development, and organizational effectiveness initiatives on an on-demand, project, or contract basis. Huge thanks to our production and editing team for a job well done. Goodbye for now.