Episode 74 | Decreasing the Digital Accessibility Divide with Alwar Pillai

Alwar Pillai  00:03

So the need for accessibility, accommodation is only going to increase. And so we’re helping these large enterprises make sure their digital products, whether that’s a website, an application, or software is accessible and usable for people with disabilities.

Voiceover  00:03

Welcome to the “Lead at the Top of Your Game” podcast, where we equip you to more effectively lead your seat at any employer, business, or industry in which you choose to play. Each week, we help you sharpen your leadership acumen by cracking open the playbooks of dynamic leaders who are doing big things in their professional endeavors. And now, your host, leadership tactics, and organizational development expert, Karan Ferrell-Rhodes.

Karan Rhodes  00:37

Welcome back to the podcast and thanks for joining us another episode designed to help you better lead at the top of your game. As you know for season three, each month we’re featuring leaders who have interesting roles in a particular profession or industry. Today’s episode is part of our special series featuring leaders navigating the digital world did you know that there are 1.5 billion people with disabilities in the world each one in this population has special challenges and using the tons of digital tools and websites that are out there is second nature to us, but difficult to many of them. But fortunately, there are companies whose mission is to decrease the accessibility gap. And we are fortunate to have one of the CEOs of such companies with us today. We’re thrilled to feature Alwar Pillai, who is the CEO and co founder of Fable, which is a company that is focused on transforming digital accessibility and inclusion Alvar is one of the few female founders who has raised more than 10 million in capital for their businesses. And she shares how fable is tackling the problem of a new term that I learned called Digital segregation in this return that kind of reflects how only 3% of the internet is digitally assessable. Despite how we met, we use online tools to run our daily lives. So please listen to me tips and perspectives of which I know will help you gain additional insights on how to help you lead at the top of your game. And now enjoy the show. Hey there superstars This is Karan and welcome to another episode of elite at the top of your game podcast. Now, I don’t know if you all remember but in Episode 19, we had a fantastic guest by the name of amber Hines who talked about digital accessibility in regards to technology, and how important it is for leaders in the workplace to make sure that the their technology is assessable for both their clients and their employees alike. Well, we have a similar episode but on steroids today, and so honored and pleased to have on today’s show, Miss Alwar Pillai, who is the CEO of Fable, and Fable’s, a company that is focused on transforming digital assist lability and inclusion. And I’m going to let her tell in detail or explain in detail what they do, because I will not do it justice. They’re doing some fantastic work at fable. But just know that Fable has worked with the likes of major players in the market, like Slack, Walmart, Shopify,Meta,and CVS Health. Oh var as well has been featured as one of the Forbes 50 I’m sorry, 30, under 30. I’m gonna try and age her…sorry! 30 under 30 awardee, so she is the real deal. And she’s one of the few female founders who has raised more than 10 million in capital. And for those of you who know, you know, one of my passions are around private equity and venture capital activity. Those of us in that space know how hard that is for female founders. So we want to give her kudos and her flowers on the day show as well. So welcome to the podcast Alwar.

Alwar Pillai  04:05

Thank you so much for having me.

Karan Rhodes  04:08

Well, I cannot wait to dig into your story and share it with our listeners for a bit because you are truly a young leader within your own right, that’s making a difference and very meaningful difference in today’s world. But before we do that, we’d love for our audience to get a sneak peek into you behind the scenes. So for as much as you feel comfortable. Would you mind sharing just a sneak peek into your personal life?

Alwar Pillai  04:33

My personal life as being in startup, definitely. A lot of my life is consumed by work and I love it because I’m passionate about the work that I do. But I think this was about over a year ago, I got a cat. And I’ve always been a dog person. And I actually gave a lot of people a hard time when they would have cats. And then my husband was Like, why don’t we get a cat you know, our lifestyle? You know, it might suit us more. And I loved it so much that now a week ago, I have my second kid. And it’s been adorable just to just to see the two of them run around. And just to see me do a full one eating.

Karan Rhodes  05:22

So 10 years ago, would you have ever believed you would be the odor of two cats now? Right?

Alwar Pillai  05:28

No, no, I so I grew up in India, and I always wanted a dog. But my mom rightfully so she had a lot to do. And she they already have two kids, you all are not going to like take care of this dog. So as long as you live under my roof, you don’t get to have a pet. And so I never had a pet growing up. I’ve always wanted one. So it’s been a great feeling to finally have a pet. I didn’t expect it to be a cat. But our cats now Yeah, absolutely love it.

Karan Rhodes  05:55

Well, welcome to the worlds of the cat family. I do love cats. But I am a dog person, I’d say first and foremost. And then cats run a close second. And the audience knows sometimes they hear a puppy under the under the desk because he sits under the desk. And listens, you may not know that we have a second new dog named bones. So we welcome bones to the lady at the top of your game family. So they sit next to each other under the desk. Usually while we’re doing work in recording, so but so happy. Thank you so much for sharing a little bit about your cat Bailey, Alwar, that’s so sweet. Well, let’s jump right in. We’d love to hear a little bit about the story of a Fable. So can you start off by telling what Fable is what you focus on and? And who your target customers and why you decided to create the company?

Alwar Pillai  06:59

Yeah, yeah. So what Fable does is we help enterprises, companies that have large digital teams, typically they have, you know, millions of users, or they’re making over 10 billion in revenue. So it kind of tells you about the scale of their operations. And we help these companies reach a wider audience. And when I mean wider audience, I mean, people with disabilities, there are over 1.5 billion people with disabilities in the world. Everyone experiences disabilities at different times, whether that’s permanent situation with temporary, and with the agent market, we know that about 46% of people over the age of 60, experienced disability. So the need for accessibility, accommodation is only going to increase. And so we’re helping these large enterprises make sure their digital products, whether that’s a website, an application, or software is accessible and usable for people with disabilities, that’s a core problem that we’re solving. And the reason, you know, I co founded fable with Avid Roni, five years ago, is at that time, and it continues to be so a majority of our internet isn’t accessible. I think WebAIM reported in 2022, about only 3% of our internet is accessible. And think about, think about everything that we do nowadays, everything is online, right? Yeah, doing shopping, working. Everything is leveraged by some tool or the other. And so when we don’t make our digital products accessible, we’re really creating digital segregation. And our goal is to mitigate that by coming back to the reason I started this is because I also actually wasn’t aware of this problem. So my background has been in user experience design. I’ve done my undergrad in UX have done my masters and inclusive design. And when I was doing my Masters is when I got introduced to this problem, because my pieces was around. How do you design technology for seniors as they age, so that they can be socially connected? Because I was noticing a lot of seniors in my life. Were like, oh, I don’t know how to use WhatsApp. I don’t know how to use messenger like, you know, it’s not easy for me. And it was very quickly to blame the user. But the problem was that these apps and websites were not designed keeping their needs in mind. And that’s when I understood the challenges that people with disabilities also face. And so I decided to try solving that problem. I was hired at Roger as one of the big telcos here in Canada, and trying to help them with their digital accessibility. And that’s when I understood the problem from the business lens that it’s not easy to do. So the tools we have the resources we have is not helping us reach that audience. And the primary reason for that is because we’re not engaging with people with disabilities. We’re trying to solve the problem without talking to the people who experienced the problem. And how does that work? So that’s why we started able to bridge that gap so that product teams can talk to people with disabilities and get the insights they need to build accessible experiences,

Karan Rhodes  10:01

Oh, that is just amazing. If I can just share just something really quick, I want the listeners to understand that difficulty with the sensibilities into technology is not new, this has been around for a long time, I’m a lot older than you are, I’ll just say that and leave it there. But even when I was starting out in the corporate world, you know, one of the my first hires for my team was a deaf individual, just superstar had a master’s degree, and, you know, a lot of skills that she brought to the table, but she was frequently discriminated against because of her disability. And back then, Tech was in what I’ll call the Olden ages, but I hired her because she was wonderfully qualified. But then even back then, in the early times of tech, especially HR tech, it was not assessable for her at all. And fast forward to maybe about 10, or 12 years ago, when I worked at Microsoft, you know, digital accessibility was a primary focus and a lot of the software that Microsoft was developing. But if I’m honest, it was tough. And there wasn’t as much of a focus as there is now and infusing that accessibility and helping companies use it well to embrace individuals that had disabilities or had accessibility issues. So, you know, I think we’ve come a long way, especially in the last few years, it’s become more in the limelight. But I, in my opinion, from what I see in the market, there’s a lot of companies that still have a long way to go to understanding and getting some or working with a partner like faible, incorporating more into their systems to really be, you know, top notch and where they should be. That’s Karen’s opinion, but I’d love for you to weigh in, because you you live this age, and every day. So are you seeing a better focus by companies now? Or is it still a struggle, you’re still having to tell that story?

Alwar Pillai  12:11

So I completely agree with you, you know, accessibility has been around for a long time accessibility laws have been around for a long time. I think the thing that I would say is, it is still a process so that the struggle is there. But the difference now is that there’s a lot more intentionality to wanting to solve the problem doesn’t mean that the problem is solved. But I think what we’re seeing more and more in the last human, like, you know, five to seven years is that now it’s at least a topic of discussion amongst executives, before it wasn’t even a topic at the table. And if it’s not being talked about at the table, then there’s not much attention going to it. So I think now, there’s a broader understanding that yes, inclusive practices, leads to a broader benefit. Organizations have a lot more commitments to a DNI. And I think now, the problem is not like, Should we do this, but how do we do it? How do we do it at scale? And I think that’s a good place to be. And if companies are thinking about it from that lens, then you are maturing with the industry.

Karan Rhodes  13:18

So does Fable, provide strategic consulting for companies that are new to this and are trying to, they’re starting at the very beginning, and really thinking through advancing their sustainability of their technology and platforms? Do you all assist with that?

Alwar Pillai  13:34

So we definitely work with companies that are all levels of accessibility, maturity. And we focus on enterprise organizations, because that’s where we see you know, the biggest impact and our mission at fable is to empower people with disabilities to, to participate in to contribute to and to shape society. And the best way we think that’s possible is to work with the largest organizations that have the biggest footprint, and in turn, we can unlock that access. So when it comes to how do we work with our customers, our goal is to be able to provide the tools and resources so that product teams can be able to just bake accessibility into their process. So our engagement with them as consultative, but it is them using the tools we’ve built that helps them really decentralize and integrate accessibility across the entire product development process.

Karan Rhodes  14:30

Nice. Nice. So if a company is at kind of the beginning stages of doing better, I’ll say, if you will, do you have recommendations on what they should be thinking about as they think through how to incorporate or include the perspective of disabled users and their product development or technology implementations?

Alwar Pillai  14:51

Yea, yeah, definitely. I think any company that’s, you know, wanting to take this next step has to approach it from a more hole Stick process. So the way I see it as I guess, people process and technology. And so one is the, how are you enabling your teams to now do something that they never did before? And how do you make it feel like it’s not additional work, that your work is just changing the way you build products are changing, so they don’t see, oh, I have to do accessibility as well. Right now, you don’t want teams to feel that you want teams to be excited about wanting to reach a broader audience. So there’s a bit of behavioral change that you need to facilitate when you’re wanting to take this next step, the next one as your process. So if you want to integrate people with disabilities, when are you integrating their feedback? are you integrating it at the research stage? Are you interviewing at the design stage? Or are you only thinking about it once you’ve built a product? And how do you retrofit it to work for people with disabilities? Our goal is that when you get insights throughout the process, and if your process is inclusive, then your output is going to be accessible, because you’ve thought about everything. And then the next layer is technology. And we’re talking about these large enterprises, tools, and platforms make a huge difference. So anytime you can lean on tools that help you do that easily. faible obviously has a bunch of tools that a lot of other companies that offer tools to integrate accessibility, and make sure you’re maintaining a standard of quality. So I would say, anyone, any organization that’s wanting to take this step, really think about it from all of these three buckets, and not just like, oh, how do I make like this one part of my product accessible? Like, do you want to build a system then?

Karan Rhodes  16:36

No, that sounds fantastic. And it gives them context because you live and breathe this every day? Can you give us an example of a company or a case study that were they did it right, you know, that they included accessibility into their planning that will kind of make it real for audience members?

Alwar Pillai  16:54

Yeah, yeah, there’s Definitely a bunch of companies that have done a really great job. And we have a few key studies on on our website. And there’s this one, one about Porter Airlines or Canadian airlines. And so for them, it’s not just, you know, the physical accessibility of the experience of someone with a disability flying with them. It’s about the experience online, it starts online, and how do you make that better, and they were approaching accessibility, you know, more from a different lens and compliance lens. And then once they took at it from a user centric perspective, they included their researchers, they included the engineers, like everyone had a role to play. And the biggest difference was, when people who are building products, see the products that they’d built, get used by people with disabilities, and then are observing the challenges that you are seeing someone who’s blind, going through a product that you build, and are struggling to complete a flaw that moments are the ones that I think make the biggest difference, because people realize, oh, this is such an infuriating problem. And I actually have all the capabilities to like, fix this easily, so that this person doesn’t experience it. So it’s this combination of like frustration, but also empowerment, because teams now have the right insights to act on it. And so we’ve seen a lot of companies similar to Porter go through that experience of how they approach accessibility to before to once they get actually really user insights. And we feel like companies become much more empathy driven. And that’s what you want. Ultimately, from the end of the day, you don’t want to look at accessibility from a compliance lens, you want to look at it from solve a problem for an end user.

Karan Rhodes  18:33

Gosh, that’s just absolutely fascinating. I could listen to this all day, all day, that is amazing. And where do you see? Are there additional big misses? Let’s see…what’s the real question I want to ask, the real question I want to ask are, what are trends that you’re seeing in the market that companies are still either missing? Or that they’re finally embracing? Like, what are the trends right now in the accessibility technology accessibility industry?

Alwar Pillai  19:06

Yeah, I would say a trend that I’m seeing change. But there’s still a majority of organizations that are like in this transition phase, which is accessibility got introduced to enterprises, from a compliance lens. So it got viewed as like a legal requirement, a legal checklist. And it’s taken a long time to help businesses understand, like the reason why those legal requirements exist, and like why lawsuits happen is because ultimately, like a huge population is being left behind. But it took a long time for businesses to start seeing the business value of inclusion, and not just look at it from a compliance. Let me cross off all the checklists. And I think now we’re come to a point where we have so much proof and evidence When you look at it from a business perspective, you actually are adding a lot more value, you’re having more customers that are loyal, you’re able to unlock more revenue. You and I probably use accessibility features that you didn’t even know were accessibility features in the first place. I don’t know about you, but I can’t watch a Netflix show with our captions, I always have it on. Captions are designed for people with hearing impairments. We have dark mode, and we have all these things that we can adjust our visual setting that’s designed for people with visual impairments, even like speech to text was designed for people with motor impairments. There’s so many features out there in our day to day life that was designed for people with disabilities first, you probably didn’t know the broader benefit. But once it was available, there was that broader benefit. So I think that’s the trend that we’re seeing. I’m just hoping more and more organizations hop on that trend.

Karan Rhodes  20:53

No, absolutely. And I hope they do too. And what’s on queue for Fable. So you’ve experienced really great success thus far. But any CEO or leader worth their weight and go has visions for even more impact in the future. So for as much as you can share, because I know, IP is very critical to keep close to the vest. What are some of your visions for Fable moving forward? You and your team? I should say it’s not just you?

Alwar Pillai  21:24

Yeah, no, it’s it’s a whole team that we have. And I would say, you know, we feel like we’re just scratching the surface and solving this problem. There’s a lot more companies that we want to be able to help, we really want to be able to reduce the digital divide for people with disabilities, we have our we have two products that are in the market. Right now we have our research and testing platform people engage, that helps product teams test their products with people with disabilities. And then we have our learning platform favorite upskill, where we’re helping individuals and teams really understand, you know, accessibility based on their role and, and what they need to do to make sure they’re contributing to it. And both of these in combination are really exciting because it’s helping companies learn and practice at scale. And a big portion of our company is a we provide flexible working opportunities to people with disabilities, we have a boss number of people with disabilities in the US and Canada, we’re mostly the first time individuals with disabilities in our community are getting a tech job. They’ve never had a tech job before. So we see ourselves as a platform where they can start to enter the tech industry. And so when I think about the future, I think about being able to help a lot more organizations, and being able to serve a wider community of people with disabilities as well, so that we can slowly start to see this, this gap being reduced. Sorry, my earphones just fell off.

Karan Rhodes  22:53

That is totally fine. Wonderful, good to have you back. So I know you all are really focused on some of the larger enterprise level firm because of their large footprints. But do you ever envision a time where there are some small business solutions as well? Because I know that you know, what, it depends on what report you look at a lot of the businesses around the world are small and medium sized businesses. Is that a space that you envision fable eventually going into? Or are there other players in the market that kind of specialize in that space?

Alwar Pillai  23:31

Yeah, at least I think for the near term, I think we’re going to be continued focused on on serving enterprises. I’m a big believer of do a few things, but do it exceptionally well. And I think, you know, the, for helping enterprises, complex organizations, there’s a lot of things that we can do in that space. And I think for I agree with you, there’s so many small and medium sized businesses, I come from a family of entrepreneurs that have, you know, started small and medium sized businesses have a lot of respect for them. I think there are multiple things that are happening in this space. Yes, there are a lot of companies, there are a lot of free tools that are also helping small businesses maintain their accessibility. And so I expect that to continue to improve. And then I also see platforms, you know, like WordPress, and even like Shopify, doing everything so that merchants also are able to have an accessible experience. So I’m excited about the innovation in that space. And we’re going to continue to focus on helping the larger enterprises.

Karan Rhodes  24:32

Now that makes a ton of sense and understand why because there’s a lot of like apps and other things that smaller size firms can infuse into their websites to help a bit you know, until they grow to the point where fable will be ideal for them. Switching up just a little bit with a question that we love to ask our guests and as you may know that I wrote a book on leadership execution and how some informing leaders, you know, tactics that they use any leadership initiatives. And we always like to ask our guests, which of the top seven that came out of our research just resonated with them. And our audience members know that all seven are equally important, but in any use some in different situations, some more than others. But when talking to you, you were so kind of the highlight two as a matter of fact, and two that really resonated with you was on leading with courageous agility and to leading with stakeholder savvy. And for new listeners, leading with courageous agility is all about having the courage and the fortitude to do what you think is right and to, you know, make action steps and move forward, even if you’re uncertain what’s going to happen. So it’s just being agile, but having courage to take that that baby step forward. And then the second one is stakeholder savvy, leading with stakeholder savvy. And that’s all about being it’s the sister tactic to emotional intelligence, but it’s meeting your, your team, your clients, your customers, where they are leaning and trying to understand them and their perspectives. And adjusting your approach and how you interact with them based on you know, things that you’ve picked up. It’s all about interpersonal skills, basically. And in that shell. So with courageous agility and stakeholder savvy, both being to that pop for you, can you just share why they did for you personally, and I think I might understand because of the stage that you’re at with fable, but I’d love for you to articulate it to our audience, if you can. Sure!

Alwar Pillai  26:37

But I think courage is agility is, is something that I think a lot of leaders have had to do in the last few years. You know, we started fable in 2018. We went out to fundraise and 2020 When COVID Just hit, we have grown our business through various macro climates, that I’ve been extremely hard and we’ve come out of it stronger, more resilient, and more confident in like the impact we’ve had. And I think I think a lot of that is just willing to be able to, you know, take that risk by being, you know, confident like, Yes, this is a problem worth solving. And we’re going to do this and willing to take that risk, I think is what’s you know, helped us unlock those stages. And yeah, like, I remember 2020, and I’m a first time founder, by the way, like it was it was a big jump for me to start a company. But now I can’t imagine doing anything else. But for someone who’s never done it before, I don’t know, I first time fundraising was 2020. Having like, video calls with investors, and no one could give me advice. There’s no one knew how to navigate that environment. And you just have to, you know, go with it. I’m glad that I just took that leap of faith because I’m so passionate and in love with the problem with solving. So that’s definitely one. And I think the second one like leading with stakeholders, savvy savviness, I think is it’s so important. You are constantly you know, dealing with various levels of stakeholders, whether that’s for us internally, from you know, our most junior individual contributor to various levels of, of managers and leadership’s members that we have to externally when I’m, you know, speaking to our customers or prospects, it’s really important to understand the problem the individual is facing, and then the problem the business is facing, and often with startups, and I remember, I had advisors who would always tell me, this is like, don’t fall in love with your solution. Fall in love with your problem. Yeah, it’s you can sell your solution. But if you’re not solving your problem, it doesn’t matter. Nobody cares. I’ve always like being like, Okay, let me put that question in my head anytime. Like I’m engaging with anyone, internally or externally. Yeah. And I think that’s helped in 20. Like, build a really great culture, or an amazing team that’s, you know, dedicated and helped us lead to success we have read so far. And externally, it’s amazing to have the kind of roster of customers that we have, who trust us to be their partner in inclusive product development.  Yeah, it was hard to pick all of them on like, I think I’ve approached the Vario approached in this way. So I appreciate you including two requests

Karan Rhodes  29:20

That’s just amazing. Well, I literally blanked, and we’re almost at the end of time. I mean, this has been so fascinating. But before I let you go, I’d love for you to share what it takes for you to lead at the top of your game.

Alwar Pillai  29:34

Oh,, that’s such a good question. Because I think it’s Yeah, as we always do, you need to you know, find your energy to make sure you’re able to provide the best to your team, into the business and for me, it’s been changing a lot. There’s always different things that like motivate me and push me helped me be in the right, you know, space and environment. But But the recent one that I’ve gotten into is Just do a really good cadence and it might sound not that exciting

Karan Rhodes  30:04

No! Whatever it takes! It’s perfect.

Alwar Pillai  30:08

But it’s definitely just being more regular with workouts. And yeah, just be able to release that energy and stress. And I recently and I’m going to be angry excited to do this again. I did a an ice plunge for like the first time. Yeah, the whole so cute of like, you know, the sauna, and then you do the cold plunge. And at first I was I was like, why would anyone do that? And then when I did it, I was like, this is so energizing!

Karan Rhodes  30:37

Oh, gosh, I can’t remember his name, right? The second. But we had a guest on the show probably about 10 or 12 episodes ago. He does one every morning he said, our job beyond belief. So you’re not as rare as you think. Oh, that is amazing. Well continue to keep doing what you’re doing. I cannot believe you live to tell the story, even through the pandemic, of the great strides that Fable has made. And we definitely wish you and your team and all employees much continued success because the work that you’re doing is very much needed throughout the world. And I for one, personally appreciate it as well as I’m sure my listeners do. So. Thank you so much for the gift of your time and being on the podcast today.

Alwar Pillai  31:29

Thank you so much for having me here. And I was it was a pleasure to speak with you.

Karan Rhodes  31:32

Oh, same here, same here. And thank you listeners as well for joining another episode of literally to the top of your game podcast. Uh, for those of you who listen regularly, you know, I only asked one thing is that you all like and subscribe our podcast and just share with just one friend so that they too can learn how to lead at the top of their game. Thanks again and see you next week. And that’s our show for today. Thank you for listening to the lead at the top of your game podcast, where we help you lead your seat at any employer, business, or industry in which you choose to play. You can check out the show notes, additional episodes, and bonus resources, and also submit guest recommendations on our website at leadyourgamepodcast.com. You can follow me on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn by searching for the name Karan Rhodes with Karan being spelled K a r a n. And if you like the show, the greatest gift you can give would be to subscribe and leave a rating on your podcast platform of choice. This podcast has been a production of Shockingly Different Leadership, a global consultancy which helps organizations execute their people, talent development, and organizational effectiveness initiatives on an on-demand, project, or contract basis. Huge thanks to our production and editing team for a job well done. Goodbye for now.