Episode 81 |The Forces Blocking Equality in the C-Suite with Dorothy Enriquez

Dorothy Enriquez  00:00

And so there are different organizations and states that have literally said, doing this work is a waste of time. And so we’re not going to do it. And if you try to do it, there will be essentially consequences and repercussions. Now, what I will say is that many folks think that diversity, equity inclusion is doesn’t give folks the opportunity to do the deep work or the real work, they often feel like it’s a band aid. And what I will say is it strongly depends on the approach, what the executives will say and do and permit and the culture. Can the culture actually withstand the change?

Voiceover  00:05

Welcome to the “Lead at the Top of Your Game” podcast, where we equip you to more effectively lead your seat at any employer, business, or industry in which you choose to play. Each week, we help you sharpen your leadership acumen by cracking open the playbooks of dynamic leaders who are doing big things in their professional endeavors. And now, your host, leadership tactics, and organizational development expert, Karan Ferrell-Rhodes.

Karan Rhodes  00:37

Hello, my friends, and welcome back to the podcast and thanks for joining another episode designed to help you better lead at the top of your game. As you know for season three each month we’re featuring leaders who have fascinating roles in a particular profession or industry. And today’s episode is part of our special series featuring leaders who focus on fostering inclusive workplaces. And now enjoy the show. Hello, my friends, welcome to another episode of the Lead at the Top of Your Game podcast. Hey, we are so pleased to have on today’s show, Dorothy Enriquez is who is the CEO of Elevate Collective which I must say, I’m a brand new fan. When we came in contact and I looked her up and what they are doing is just tremendous and absolutely fantastic. So I can’t wait for her to share. But the Elevate Collective foster’s leadership and diversity in today’s workforce. And under the guidance of the full Elevate team, they transform their members into leaders with a particular focus on fostering diversity, equity and inclusion. And what I also am absolutely passionate about and love is that they aim to boost the female C-suite presence by 2% or more in the next five years. And that is just tremendous. And you and I both know how much that is needed in today’s workforce. Now elevate has served clients just like Nestle and Kohl’s amongst other larger organizations. And Dorothy is also the author of the book, Be Accountable and Be Fabulous. So welcome to the podcast Dorothy.

Dorothy Enriquez  02:21

Thanks for having me. You talking about this is exciting.

Karan Rhodes  02:28

It is it is and I hate that we only have around 30 minutes or so because I probably could talk for you for hours, as we had a little conversation in the pre chat. But I’m thankful that you are here today.

Dorothy Enriquez  02:42

Thank you for having me.

Karan Rhodes  02:44

Well, before we dive into the details, for as much as you feel comfortable. We’d love to get a sneak peek into a little bit about your personal life and passions or hobbies.

Dorothy Enriquez  02:55

Sure, well, I just got married

Karan Rhodes  02:58

Congratulations!

03:02

So I like quadrupled the size of my family. So I went from one kid to five kids.

Karan Rhodes  03:09

Oh how precious!

Dorothy Enriquez  03:10

So now, we are a much bigger family and my little bun in the sun now has brothers and sisters. So she is thrilled to not be an only child and I look amazing for having had five children.

Karan Rhodes  03:26

You do. I mean just bottle that up, right? We’re gonna become trillionaires if we could resell it.

Dorothy Enriquez  03:33

That’s right! So that is the sneak peek into what’s been going on for about the last six weeks of my life.

Karan Rhodes  03:42

Oh, well, first of all, congratulations. It’s fantastic to hear about such a blended family. And I know your little one is happy with quadruple the love that goes around with all your being together. So, so happy for you all

Dorothy Enriquez  04:01

It is an exciting time. Lots of blending lots of blending.

Karan Rhodes  04:07

Lots of blended Absolutely. Well, let’s go ahead and dive in a little bit about the work that fuel are doing at the Elevate Collective so let’s just start off by you sharing with our listeners. What Elevate Collective is all about and I know I didn’t do it justice enough for all the fantastic things you are doing. So can you share with us a bit more deeply about what you’re doing, what you’re trying to achieve and some of the impacts that you’re trying to make?

Dorothy Enriquez  04:37

Yeah, so we are an award winning premier learning and leadership development firm with a diversity equity inclusion arm we were doing di before it got cute though. So you know there’s that. So we’ve been in the leadership development space diversity, equity inclusion space for a while. And primarily we have a full Because I’m CPG, which is consumer packaged goods. And so we like to focus in the area of manufacturing and production, because that’s where a robust part of our background comes from. And so it allows us to serve that client base with expertise and brilliance. So that’s why we’ve been able to partner with clients like Nestle and Campbell’s and Mars as we continue to serve those clients. And then, you know, when we think about manufacturing, that also dovetails into retail. So that’s where the coals of the world the for love and lemons would come from. And they’re a subsidiary of Victoria’s Secret. So what we want to do and what we strive to do is a few things. First, we want to make sure that leadership development is accessible, relatable and transformative, because as we think about the experiences that we often have, in leadership programs that were they aren’t necessarily focused on leadership, they’re typically focused on management, and leadership and management are not the same. Those are not missing. Yes, right. They’re two different things. And so we want to make sure that today’s team member is equipped and cultivated to be tomorrow’s leader. And our pledge and promise is that the transformation lasts beyond the experience. We don’t want to be anyone’s crutch, we want to make sure that we offer you that support that curated content through a cohort style experience and that coaching at that executive level, even if you’re not an executive yet, to ensure that there’s that sustainability and anchoring, after we leave, so that it doesn’t feel like a flavor of the month. And so while we have a focus in CPGs, we have had the opportunity to work with a breadth and depth of clientele that really want to transform how we as citizens experience the world of work.

Karan Rhodes  07:04

Oh, I love that I love absolut in literally and so yes. And I agree with everything you said you could almost drop the mic right there. And that would be the podcast of the year. But yes. And because we we SDL does a lot of leadership development as well. What I find is a missing piece is what we call the last mile of leadership, meaning companies in generally have leadership development on particular skill sets where you go deep on a particular skill. Sure, they don’t do as great of a job on helping them actualize it in their day to day role. And so we focus on that last mile saying, Hey, we use upskill your individuals with these individual skills, but we want to take those and help them put it together in their day to day job and help them with the dynamics of what they’re going to run up against when people push back or their executive has questions that they’re unsure how to answer, how to help them not freeze like a deer in the headlights and still feel equipped to be able to lead their perspective. So I just absolutely love how you all are approaching leadership development holistically. Yeah.

Dorothy Enriquez  08:25

And you’re absolutely right, because a lot of times when we are taking courses in context, meaning that it’s being delivered by the organization, it’s often rote, not intentionally, yeah. But it’s the Okay, now that you’re here, come sit and get one plus one is two, two plus two is four. But then what happens in this agile, ever changing work environment, where two plus two is really two plus two squared times seven? Now we’ll do and so that’s where having those external experts and consultants come in to do as you call it, the last mile to make sure that it sticks so that people can really have this optimization to answer the call on leadership, remarkable leadership, which is to produce another leader who can produce another leader who can produce another leader. We can’t do that when it’s rote, it’s too hard. And for many of us, we don’t realize that that’s what we’re supposed to be doing.

Karan Rhodes  09:26

Very true. Very, very true. Yeah. I’m curious on your di piece of the practice, because from I know enough to be dangerous and can deliver facilitated workshops, but I will never call myself a DI expert per se, because there are people like you that live and breathe it every single day. We work more on the kind of the strategy side of workforce development and effectiveness but I’m curious your thoughts on the state of the AI in today’s business world. Big because from my perspective, we have gone. It’s always been around and needed ever since I got to college, but it’s just been an to me and a roller coaster of acceptance from executive business leaders and companies. Sometimes they’re all in sometimes they’re stationary, sometimes they’re out and in today’s climate, I’m just curious, your thoughts of the state of the AI in the world of work?

10:29

Well, look, since it’s been recorded, let me be thoughtful about how I frame this

Karan Rhodes  10:35

 Oh, spit it out. We’re all friends…we’re all friends!

10:39

So, there’s a couple things, a couple of things. Yes, diversity has been around for forever. Now, the framing, if you go back historically, even if you go back, like 25 years, it was just diversity. And diversity was curated not as a proactive component, but rather as a reactive element. And so what often happened back in the day, if you will, is that someone would do something and now you find yourself in diversity training, somebody would do something, and now you find yourself in sexual harassment training, we’ll fast forward, I’ll say about 20 years ago, you know, 15, 17 ish. in that timeframe, it was still diversity. However, many organizations started to take a more proactive approach. And saying, As you enter, it’s just part of onboarding. So like, as you enter, everyone’s going to take this diversity training like online or in person, it’ll be part of orientation. But again, not necessarily this embedded experience that we started to notice around, I’ll say, 2010, all the way through 2015. And so depending on where you grew up, and where you were brought up, you probably recall around in the mid to late 80s, a campaign around tolerance, just to tell you where we were in the inclusion scale, if you will. And so back then it was we need to tolerate each other more, we need to be more tolerant of one another. Now, what’s intriguing about this is that you can ask anybody in your peer set above or below. Do you know when you’re being tolerated, the average individual who has even any remote level of awareness will say, Absolutely, I can tell when I’m being tolerated. The follow up question to that is, do you like it? And no one is going to give you a yes. So the fact that we had a whole entire national nationwide campaign around tolerating each other, tells you where we were in the journey of it. All right, so that’s like in the 80s. Now we’re in the 2020s. So over time, we have noticed that there has been sort of an alphabet soup approach. So it was diversity, then it was diversity and inclusion, then it was diversity, equity, inclusion, but because we weren’t even getting the I right, the fact that we added the E was quite intriguing to me as a practitioner. And depending on what organization you work in, there’s all of these references. It’s R E I, it’s D E I, here at Elevate, we call it D E I E, because engagement is impacted by how well or not so well, that you do D E I. And so

Karan Rhodes  13:29

And then you have the E IB, right, with belonging that thrown in there.

13:33

Well, yea. We’ve got the A for accessibility. And we’ve got the S for support and to it as D E I E A S, because access without support is still oppression. Because this idea that you can say, Well, you had all the tools, I don’t know why you didn’t you know what I’m saying? It’s like, but if I didn’t have support for how to navigate and leverage those tools, what did you expect me to do? So all of that to say that 2020 was an awakening. And now I’ll say 2023 Was the we want to go back to sleep. And so there are different organizations and states that have literally said, doing this work is a waste of time. And so we’re not going to do it. And if you try to do it, there will be essentially consequences and repercussions. Now, what I will say is that many folks think that diversity, equity inclusion is doesn’t give folks the opportunity to do the deep work or the real work, they often feel like it’s a band aid. And what I will say is it strongly depends on the approach, what the executives will say and do and permit and the culture. Can the culture actually withstand the change? And what I can say having worked with a variety of different organizations for years, this is not bandaid work, but it depends on who’s doing it. Which organization and the powers that be are Are they willing to draw a line in the sand? Are they willing to make sacrifices? And this idea of equity? What are you willing to give up? Because if we’re going to make it equitable, someone might not get something.

Karan Rhodes  15:15

That’s right. It’s got to be a given give somewhere, in order to be

15:19

It has to be given take, and are you willing to break a system that is literally working the way it was designed to work? Are you willing to make those changes?

Karan Rhodes  15:28

But how many companies say, Yes, I’m willing to do that?

15:31

 A lot. Not enough. But a lot. But, would I say that, it’s like, 50%? No, but I think it’s one of those things where it’s like, you begin transforming one organization at a time. And I remember, you know, Delta Airlines kind of spearheading making, even the informer, the informational videos more diverse, and in different languages and different faces. And it used to not be that way. And so I think that there are different ways for organizations to spearhead this work. But it really to your point depends on Are they willing, and some organizations, it’s a no other organizations, it’s a slow trickle. And I’ve literally seen seen CEOs get up and say, white CEOs, no less, white male CEOs, no less get up and say, if you don’t want to get off the get on the bus, you can get off. And people are like clutch the pearls. Are we really having this discussion? So yes, there are a lot of organizations that are doing the work. And there are a lot of organizations that are just pretending to do the work.

Karan Rhodes  16:40

I just sigh because it’s just such a sad state of affairs, when there’s literally research after research study out there that shows that by truly embracing this work and infusing it into your business and people strategies, helps accelerate the very business metrics and success that all of these CXOs are accountable for. So why would you not use a tool or lever or something to is a no brainer that will help everyone achieve it just blows my mind? So

Dorothy Enriquez  17:19

Right. That’s right.

Karan Rhodes  17:23

Well, let’s turn the tables a little bit. Let’s talk about women in the C suite and the lack of representation in many companies and industries have things on corporate boards. And I’m curious if you have any thoughts or ideas about why this continues to be an area of concern. I know there’s a lot of organizations that are trying to improve on this. And I’m in fact in a program that is trying to help change this trend. But since I know a bit of your all’s work is around that, I’d love to hear some of your thoughts around that and maybe if there’s a tip or two, for females, that aspiration to get to those higher levels in the C suite in the board. How should they think about and prepare themselves to be able to, you know, be a prime candidate?

18:16

Yeah. So let me make sure I play it back since it was a two part question

Karan Rhodes  18:20

I know. There was a lot in there. I’m sorry.

18:22

The first question was why is it uneven? In the C suite? Okay,

Karan Rhodes  18:28

Well, if you had any thoughts around that, if you is, that’s fine. But then the other piece was, how can if you have any recommendations for those who do want to reach the C suite and or board levels? And can what can they do to help prepare themselves or put themselves in a position to be considered?

18:46

Absolutely. So both great questions. So I’ll start with the first one around, why is it that if women represent over 50% of the population, men still represent the majority of the C suite. And so we think we will define C suite as the chief levels in a large organization. So your Chief Human Resource Officer, Chief Marketing Officer, Chief finance officer, etc. So, in the US, it changes as you go from country to country, but in the US, ostensibly, we still have a preference, male, white, six feet, and John in particular. Now, when you look at the statistics around how many people are actually named John, it does not match how many CEOs are named John,

Karan Rhodes  19:37

I don’t think I knew the John dynamic. I knew the other

19:41

It’s a  disparity that like doesn’t even make sense. And so because we have this preference, that speaks to the next point around, why is it so uneven? Well, this goes into confidence and competence. So it’s not that there are women who don’t know how to do it. What we have discovered societally is that we have a preference for male leaders. Now, depending on how old anyone listening is, you may remember the term fire man and police man, you’ve not heard those terms. In years, you’ve heard fire fighter and police officer. But again, fire man, police man was around in the 80s, it was still around in the 90s. It was around in the 60s and 70s. So that speaks to how we view leadership capability, competence and capacity. It is inherently male. So then you take that, and then you look at how over time, most C suites were comprised of all men and one woman. Well, over time, I’ll say like late 90s, going into the 2000s, there started to be this swell of you only have one woman that’s not diverse. And this is where we started to hear the term toolkit, because that was their way of addressing the disparity in the gap. So we don’t just have one woman, we’ve got to, we’ve done our job. So now if we look at the history of how it got to be, and then we’re looking at, okay, well, now it’s like 26 ish percent in the C suite, even though we represent more than 50% of the population. So part of this, I think it’s a, a two fold experience. Number one, lots of women end up dropping out of the workforce, because they become mothers, and they become primary parents. Now, as you go to other countries, women are not always required to be the primary parent. But if you look at the system of child care in the US, and presidents in the 70s, that essentially 60s and 70s, that said, if you let other people take care of your kids, will all go to hell in a handbasket. Well, that’s part of why the government does not fund childcare in the US, but governments across the world fund and support childcare. So women end up dropping out of the workforce, that’s part of it, there is the second generation gender bias, that’s another part of it. But then the finale goes back to competence and confidence. The research shows that women are actually quite competent, and in many cases, more competent than their male counterparts. But the confidence element is where we end up shooting ourselves in the foot. What do I mean? Well, we’ll often see opportunities, and unless we can check off every single, single, single single box, we’re not applying, we are often told, Hey, go ahead and throw your name in the hat, put your name, you know, put your poor shoe in the rink, whatever the case is, thinking, Well, I don’t know, because I got to make sure I pick my kids up. And so if I have to pick my kids up, but I see that the person who was previously in the role didn’t leave till six. I guess I can’t do it. Now, you might be thinking, No, that would be like a lower level individual who hasn’t been working for the last 1015 20 years? No, this happens even at the highest echelon, where we find ourselves overthinking. So there’s all of these contributing factors that play a role. But ultimately, I think it’s going to still take time before we see that it is even. But what I will lift up is because we predominantly work with large corporations, and nonprofits. There are many organizations that have initiatives around creating a more even C suite. So while it may not be 5050, I think over the next few years, we’re gonna see

Karan Rhodes  23:56

Creep…it’ll creep up?

Dorothy Enriquez  23:57

20 then 40. I think it’d be a while before we see 50%. But there are some nations that have already achieved that and beyond. And the fact that when we want to do this, well, it’s this adage of what gets measured gets done. That’s what gets tracked gets done. And so with organizations that have those types of initiatives attached to bonus, and attached to merit increases, they’re more likely to get stuff done. So that was a really long answer about why it’s uneven. But a couple quick tips that I would say for women who want to engage in the climb, as we’ll call it. Number one, especially if you are a woman of color, get a coach. What the research shows is, we as women of color are far less likely to get coaches, not because we just don’t want to coach but because no one is suggesting it. And so it just kind of doesn’t come to mind to invest in ours. selves in that way. Now, if you can get your company to pay for it even better, but invest in a coach, the other thing that I will lift up is your job lady leader is to build an army of people who can carry your good name forward. And when I say an army, I mean it, and it cannot be your boss, it cannot be your boss, it cannot be your boss, your boss’s job is to manage your performance. So even if you try to make them your champion and advocate, they will always come across bias. And so your job is to lean into what’s already built into our DNA, we are already built to attend and befriend. And so that means that there’s this natural component and how women are curated and created to build relationships and rapport. And so you want to build as many relationships as possible cross functionally up, down and across, where there are people who are in rooms that you’re not in yet, who can carry your good name forward, and your personal brand forward. But in particular lady leader, I want you to work on in 2020, for getting a champion, a sponsor or an advocate. This is someone who has influence. This is someone who’s likable enough, this is you can’t pick Miranda Priestly, she was incredible, right, but nobody liked her. So this is someone who has influenced this is someone who has some element of likability, and this is someone who’s willing to speak up on your behalf, you need a champion advocate a sponsor, this is the person who’s going to get you into that next role. And this is the person who will potentially help you engage in a two step acceleration, or a leapfrog, because they got the game, and they have access, and they can give you support. But your job is to build an army of people so that you know, what is being said about you in these rooms, as you make your master plan for how you’re going to go up to that next level.

Karan Rhodes  27:11

Absolutely. Now, in our program, we call that building a strong network of strategic supporters. But it’s the same concept of what you’re talking about building an army, and even out of your network of strategic supporters, you do need to have identified a small subset of that to be your advocates and knowing their role of being your advocate, so that they can speak on your behalf while you’re in the room. And the other comment I wanted to share was that I was speaking to an expert on on corporate boards, paid boards. And we were talking about the challenges of female and people of color on, you know, these, you know, corporate boards. And he was stating that, and he’s me, he’s very connected. I mean, he’s connected to all of the brand name, logo, you know, logo companies that everybody knows. And he says, to your point that sometimes women and people of color up to a certain level start dropping out of the workforce and maybe doing their own thing early, they don’t get that last mile of exposure of knowing where the opportunities are having that strategic supporter that would nominate them to be a candidate on a paid board. And then actually, really knowing the role that or how they want to show up at a corporate board so that they’re providing the type of value where they’re, nobody would consider replacing them kind of thing. And so it’s having all of that you said, plus that additional knowledge to be able to be on those short list, you know, there there’s a hate to say ever, there’s a way there’s not you won’t be able to find it on Google on how to get onto these type of paid boards. So you’ve got to be into that network, so that you’re able to hopefully, get nominated. But anywho I know, we’re running short on time, but I definitely want to get to one last question. But let me let you say that your last comment first.

29:26

So the other thing I was gonna say is along the lines of what you were saying is that it’s not what you know, and it’s not necessarily who you know, because we know a lot of people, it’s who knows you.

Karan Rhodes  29:38

That’s right. That’s right.

29:40

Who knows you? Because you can say, oh, I know whoever do they know you though?

Karan Rhodes  29:44

That’s right.

Dorothy Enriquez  29:45

But do they know you and do they know anything about you? Yeah. Or do they just know of you?

Karan Rhodes  29:49

And are they invested in your success, too. They can know you? But are they going to be the one to stand up and say report your name, like you said, when you’re not in the room.

Dorothy Enriquez  30:03

Right?

Karan Rhodes  30:04

Yeah,

Dorothy Enriquez  30:05

Right.

Karan Rhodes  30:06

Well, before we close out, I can’t believe we’ve been talking for almost 30 minutes, well over 30 minutes. Now, we always love to ask our guests, which of the leadership tactics that I talked about in my book really jumped out and resonated with them. And you were so kind enough to share that leading with intrapreneurship can raise the ire too. And for our listeners out there, if you remember leading with intrapreneurship is all about building an organization or entity or team that you’re working in, by identifying new opportunities to develop or improve operations products and services. So it’s all within whatever entity that you’re working in, always have an eye out for innovation and improvement and bringing those to the table. So Dorothy, I’m going to ask you to share why leading with intrapreneurship really resonated with you as well.

Dorothy Enriquez  31:00

Sure. And so basically, the reason why that stands out is because that if you want to be a remarkable leader, and you want to be the plug as we call it here at Elevate, you want to lead with intrapreneurship, because that means you’re taking ownership. And so if you’re taking ownership, then yes, you can create innovation around products and services that already exist. But in some instances, you can be the creator ur of that next product, and that next service. And as we think about how we get stuff done in these different spaces and places, well, from an operation standpoint, I’m being an intrapreneur. That means I’m acting like an entrepreneur inside of the organization and saying, I am going to own this process, end to end, I’m going to make sure that I’m doing what I’m supposed to be doing that my team is doing, what they’re supposed to be doing. And our client, whether internal or external, is going to be kept posted and abreast of what’s going on. They don’t have to wonder and worry and be concerned like, are they getting it done? Are they doing good job? Are they meeting the specs and expectations? Are they executing with brilliance? Because if I’m taking ownership, and I’m running this part of this business that I work in, as if it were my own business, that means I’m showing up in a very powerful way. And I’m mastering those skills of leadership around communicating, being accountable, delegating, making sure that in from the lens of being a great leader that I’m demanding that my folks step up, and lead from every seat they sit in, and that they’re doing those same things. And I’m sharing what the expectations are, and making sure that I’m engaging in those tools and strategies to move things along in a powerful way. So if we could be more intrapreneurial, our bosses overall would be happier with how we show up and how we perform.

Karan Rhodes  33:05

absolutely! You will wow them over because there are few that really step above and beyond. And two years point into end to the bands that is providing value to the organization and to you to your reputation, where and that’s how you transform your own personal brand into a leadership brand. That’s how people will end up seeing you so oh my gosh, Dorothy, oh, I’ve got to bring you on for another episode. I really have to at some point. But thank you so much for the gift of your time and sharing your insights and knowledge with our audience members. We really appreciate it.

Dorothy Enriquez  33:48

This has been awesome. Thank you for having me.

Karan Rhodes  33:51

Oh, absolutely. And thank you to listeners for the gift of your time. We know that you could have listened to a million podcasts. But we thank you for tuning in to the elite at the top of your game podcast. And as you know, we always just ask one favor. That’s to like and subscribe and share the podcast with just one friend. Because by doing so YouTube will pay it for it to help them also lead at the top of their game. Thank you so much and see you next week. Bye. And that’s our show for today. Thank you for listening to the lead at the top of your game podcast, where we help you lead your seat at any employer, business, or industry in which you choose to play. You can check out the show notes, additional episodes, and bonus resources, and also submit guest recommendations on our website at leadyourgamepodcast.com. You can follow me on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn by searching for the name Karan Rhodes with Karan being spelled K a r a n. And if you like the show, the greatest gift you can give would be to subscribe and leave a rating on your podcast platform of choice. This podcast has been a production of Shockingly Different Leadership, a global consultancy which helps organizations execute their people, talent development, and organizational effectiveness initiatives on an on-demand, project, or contract basis. Huge thanks to our production and editing team for a job well done. Goodbye for now.