Episode 84 | How to Upgrade Your Professional Excellence with JM Ryerson

JM Ryerson  00:03

You can’t really lead anyone until you lead yourself. What do I mean by that? What are you doing for yourself before you step through that door as the employer, as the leader? Are you truly taking care of your mind, your body, and your soul?

Voiceover  00:03

Welcome to the “Lead at the Top of Your Game” podcast, where we equip you to more effectively lead your seat at any employer, business, or industry in which you choose to play. Each week, we help you sharpen your leadership acumen by cracking open the playbooks of dynamic leaders who are doing big things in their professional endeavors. And now, your host, leadership tactics, and organizational development expert, Karan Ferrell-Rhodes.

Karan Rhodes  00:37

Welcome back to the podcast everyone. And thanks for joining another episode designed to help you better lead at the top of your game, guys, you know for season three. Each month we’re featuring leaders who have fascinating roles in a particular profession or industry. Today’s episode is part of our special series featuring leaders who focus on an aspect of sales performance. And now enjoy the show. Hey, they’re superstars. This is Karen and welcome to another episode of the lead at the top of your game podcast. We are so pleased to have on today’s show, JM Ryerson is the co founder and CEO of Let’s Go Win, which is a company that’s really focused on helping leaders and entrepreneurs be their best selves. And as you know, that’s what we’re focused on on the show is helping you to lead at the top of your game. He is also the host of a podcast of the same name call Let’s Go Win. And he has a recent book called Upgrade: The Only Way Leaders Can Win in a World Moving at Lightspeed. And I need to devour that immediately. So let me tell you about that. So I’m sure he’s going to give us more details. He has a lot of tips that he wants to share with you. So let’s officially welcome JM to the podcast. So welcome, Jay. And good morning to you.

JM Ryerson  02:01

Good morning, Karen. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. And I’m humbled and blessed to be here today.

Karan Rhodes  02:06

Oh, that’s awesome. And on assignment, I just got to say you have a fantastic radio voice. So I think your career can expand if it hasn’t already, in many directions. I just absolutely

JM Ryerson  02:17

I’ve heard that. I told my wife I was like, Are they saying I don’t have a TV face? Is that what they’re mean by that? So no, I appreciate it.

Karan Rhodes  02:25

Not at all. Quite a handsome fella was say that no offense to your wife at all. So I know you could do it every year like in the world of media and communications. Well, I’m super excited to learn more about your firm and consultancy and information in the book. But before we delve into that, for as much as you feel comfortable, we’d love to get a sneak peek into a bit of your personal life and passions.

JM Ryerson  02:52

Yeah, no, I, I mean, I’m an open book. So I’m a kid from Montana originally, that’s where I grew up. And I was an athlete. That’s what I you if you told me I wasn’t gonna play in the NBA would have told you you’re crazy. Well, two knee surgeries later, that was no longer my reality. I ended up studying abroad over in the Netherlands, came back graduated, surprisingly. So I went to three schools and four years somehow graduated with two degrees, I don’t understand and how that math worked out. But I ended up going to California. And I built three companies as an entrepreneur, sold those in the financial services space, and then started my company today, which I call my legacy company. Let’s go when, after writing my first book for my two kids, so my wife and I have 17 and 14 year old sons. And this was not the path I necessarily thought I would choose. But I love it. I’m so blessed. And it’s funny how it works out that way.

Karan Rhodes  03:50

That’s amazing. Well, I’m sure you can you have a ton of stories good, bad and ugly about building up multiple companies and being successful in those. That entails a whole elevated level of leadership because I’ve been there. I haven’t done that many companies. I’m still on my one here, but I do you know the dynamics that it takes and the resilience that it takes to be able to do that successfully. But let’s start b, can you share a little bit about Let’s Go Win as a company and what you will really striving to do and make a difference in the world?

JM Ryerson  04:27

Yeah, so what I did before my previous companies, it’s in the world of financial services. But I don’t know much about financial services. If you were to ask me about dividends or returns or any of that I’m like, let’s get you someone much brighter that knows those answers. What I know I’m good at was sales and leadership. And so that’s really what I did is I built teams around the country at my various companies on leadership based principles. And so that’s essentially what let’s go in is really more tend to is I found that there’s so many companies out there, they have an expertise. So let’s say, one of my most recent clients, it’s a dentist, and he’s fantastic at being a dentist. However, they’re not trained on sales, and they’re not trained on leadership. And so you walk into this incredible atmosphere, he’s got a great setup, but they’re really lacking in these two areas. And so what I’ve done is I partner with companies and what my historical return or what I’ve done is, I’ll double their revenue in the first year at a minimum. And his name is David. And he said, Oh, come on. And I said, Well, let’s give it a shot. Let’s do a little partnership here and see what happens. Well, after our first complete month, he had his his record month he’s ever had. And we’re off and running to the races. And what’s so fascinating to me, is what’s really challenging for them is the piece that’s so easy for me. Whereas if you wanted me to do a filling, or a root canal, or a dental implant, no chance, right? Like, I don’t know that stuff. And so what I do is I marry those together with various companies. And so that’s a big piece of it. The other one you mentioned is let’s go in podcasts. And I know you’re going to be a guest on it, which you’re going to be a rock star, but it’s just sharing so much of this knowledge that we’ve acquired through the years of experience, or studies, or whatever that is, because the whole point of let’s go win is to inspire people to live their best lives. And so whether it’s a company, or I’m coaching somebody, that’s my end goal is I want them to live their absolute best life. So that’s what we’re striving for today

Karan Rhodes  06:45

Fascinating. So when you go into potential clients and start to peel back the layers of the onion of of the problems that they’re trying to solve, are there some common trends? Or is there a place that you try to start to? Because you know, sometimes what they think is the issue is not really the issue, and you have to dig a little bit deeper to find root causes? How do you start with them to plant a flag to explore? What’s the core problem we really need to solve so that you could start building, you know, a strategy and a plan to do so?

JM Ryerson  07:20

Yeah, it’s a really basic question. And I asked, What are your core values? What are your cultural values, I’ll use one of those terms, because some people have a different. And here’s what you’ll find 99%. So if I ask 1000 companies, 999 of them will miss this, because one executive will list off a whole bunch. And next, the next executive will list off something different than next will be something different. Now, here’s the deal. I was the same way. In my first company and a half, I didn’t have this down. And guess what we grew at about 15% a year. And I was almost divorced, I was separated from my wife for a year, I was extremely unhealthy. I was up to 300 pounds of being again an athlete. That doesn’t make sense. But it all does start back at these core values, because it makes everything go smoother. your hiring process, your retention process, having the right people on the bus versus the wrong people. And so that’s the first question I asked. And often I get people like, really? That’s it? I’m like, yeah, and then we get started, then we start to figure out what Why do we exist? Why does this company exist? What are we really trying to do? Who are we trying to serve? Are we clear on our goals? Do we have the right people on the team? And if we don’t, let’s go find them. And so that starts the whole process. And what happens is, you’ll immediately see, Oh, Tom doesn’t quite fit the mold, or maybe Tom’s just in the wrong chair. He is in marketing when he should truly be in HR, or he should be in recruiting or something different. And you’ll find that often, because we haven’t really been clear on exactly who we’re looking for, and what role are they going to fill?

Karan Rhodes  09:07

That is so true. You’re so right about that. Because even you know, with our firm, when we go in and consult, you identify a lot of that we do ask about culture, but probably not the first question. And so one of the takeaways I’m even take it away from this is maybe that might be the first one we need to ask. So we know their perspective, what they’re dealing with, where they would like to go that’s in alignment with their values, and then that would help drive you know, a lot of the business decisions. Where do you see a lot of your leaders that you work with, fall down? Where are the blind spots that you have experience with them?

JM Ryerson  09:47

Yeah, this is a great question, and I hope all the leaders are listening. There’s two. The first one is you can’t really lead anyone until you lead yourself. What do I mean by that? What are you doing for yourself? Self before you step through that door as the employer as the leader, are you truly taking care of your mind, your body and your soul? And frequently again, Karen, you’ll find so often some of these people are they’re crushing it financially, but their health is a mess, their relationships are terrible. Well, guess what they’re bringing that baggage into the company. So that’s one of the first blind spots that I look at, as I’ll ask a question, and especially to my female leaders, what did you do for yourself today? And they’ll list off the dog, the kids, the house, the husband, the car, it’ll be a litany of things. And I said, Hold on, I said, What did you do for yourself? And it’s like this lightbulb moment of, oh, my gosh, I didn’t do anything. Well, how can you expect to show up as the best version of you, if you literally are trying to pour from an empty cup, you got to fill that cup. So that’s the first thing, the second thing really fast. And I know I because that one, I’m telling you that one is I’m passionate about that, especially for my female clients, because I want them to take care of them first. But the second one is they don’t have a leadership philosophy. And often, then when problems come up, they don’t know what to rely on, nor do their people. And so when you’re real clear on this is my philosophy. So for me, it’s really easy. It’s not about me, that’s my leadership philosophy. I’ve had it from company one to company four. What that means is that I am serving my clients, I am serving my employees first I come last. Now that’s funny, because I just said, What did you do for yourself first, and then in the company, I put myself as that secondary position. But that’s how I found it to be most successful. And I see so frequently, people don’t they lose sight of the fact that these people are here to serve their clients. Let’s make sure it’s not about us, but rather about them. It’s about the people that come to work for us every day and buy into our vision.

Karan Rhodes  11:57

I love that. And it Lets Go Win do you all mostly focus on helping aspects of the business? Are you mostly executive coaches working one on one with the leaders or mixture of both?

JM Ryerson  12:09

It’s a mixture, it really is. I have something really interesting with my first six clients, I don’t know why, for some reason, I was tracking this. So four of those clients were single four of which were married, within a year of my first six clients, the four single ones ended up being and the other two, their relationships improved. And I was like, this is really interesting. I am not a relationship coach. Not at all. And yet, because we put so much focus on them, getting them healthy, getting their work life balance, which I know people, they’re like, doesn’t exist, that doesn’t exist. I’m like, All right, work life, harmony, whatever you want to call it. When you get that realigned. What happens is now, your personal life gets better. Now, you’re not so stressed, you’re spending less time at work and getting better results. And I was like, That’s really fascinating, because I never thought anything about what I’m helping people with is about the relationships. But the truth is, that’s what it did for me. So why wouldn’t it do it for them, too?

Karan Rhodes  13:08

Yeah, absolutely. And who are your ideal clients? What are the target markets that let’s go when is optimal for?

JM Ryerson  13:18

That’s such a good question. And this is the most challenging one for me, because I have literally helped professional golfers. I mentioned the dentist and aviation group, an HR group. I mean, it’s a staffing unit. I mean, it’s all over a pickleball and tennis. Well, here’s what I think I’ve figured out to things small to medium sized businesses, if it gets to corporate, often, it’s just it’s too slow to get some of the things that I want to implement to really make a lasting change. So I say small to medium businesses. And also, do they have a growth mindset? Do they really want to get better? And are they open? Because if you’re not open to feedback, it’s probably not going to work. And you and I are just going to butt heads the whole time. So those are the two is is really small to medium businesses. And, you know, if they have a growth mindset.

Karan Rhodes  14:09

You know, I’d like to ask go deeper on the growth mindset thing. He’s either we asked that question, if they do have a growth, there’s a lot of questions that get around that. Do they have the growth mindset? Are they open to pivoting? And are they open to change? You know, you pick your question, right? And most of the people in your first conversations with them say absolutely you though I’m gung ho, I’m ready to do this. But that work is hard. It’s really hard. And as you start working with clients, you start seeing sometimes pushback, or they’re not as energized as they were at the beginning. So I’m just curious, is there anything that you recommend or can do to continue or re ignite that excitement and engagement that they first had when they begin their work with you?

JM Ryerson  15:00

Yeah, this is literally why I wrote the third book called Upgrade because for 20 some odd years, I tried to change people. Well guess what? news alert.

Karan Rhodes  15:10

People don’t like to change.

JM Ryerson  15:11

People don’t like change, carry don’t like it.

Karan Rhodes  15:13

They don’t! At all.

JM Ryerson  15:14

And so it’s like, why are we trying to change people? Because the truth is, all you’re trying to do is help them perform at their best help them be happy, healthy, wealthy. That’s my three values of my company. And so what I figured out, and I mean, literally, I was like, why did this take me so long? People love to upgrade. People upgrade their cell phone every single year, you go on a flight? You said you flying out of Atlanta all the time? Well, guess what? If they’re like, hi, Miss Rhodes, we’re gonna put you from your business class into first class are? Well, that’s a change. Are you upset? Hell, no. Let’s go put me in first class. That’s right. And so what happens is, there’s nothing wrong with your business class or coach seat. But that first class, it’s a nice experience. It’s an upgrade. And so what it made me realize is when I talk to people, now, when I talk to my clients, I use the word upgrade frequently. Because when you say change, people are like, well, there’s something wrong with me. There’s nothing wrong with anybody that I work with. And I mean that sincerely. That’s just where they’re at today. Could we get a little bit better? Which is my mantra getting better every single day? Like, can we get a little bit better? You upgraded your cell phone last year? Why did you do that? Well had this cool benefit and feature and cool, man, we’re just doing the same thing with you, let’s upgrade you a little bit so that you can live your best life. So you can be operating at the speed of that cell phone. And then people it’s amazing. It’s the same thing. But the what the change of words, it’s night and day how they react to it.

Karan Rhodes  16:46

 I can imagine that, especially once you work with them to get a build a good foundation. And then they’re humming along, like you had said, you know, they’re some of those first six clients, every relationship to prove things that work improved. And now they’re very ready and open to upgrading to the next level. So can you give us some some tips on examples of how leaders can upgrade themselves? What does that really mean? It’s a fantastic word there, I’m sure they get energized around it. But when you peel back the layers of the onion, what does that really mean? What are some examples?

JM Ryerson  17:22

Yeah, I’m gonna give you three questions that you can use with any client. If you ask, I don’t know something about a self limiting belief they have we’ve done it this way. And that’s the only way it can be done. You hear this all the time, like, Well, it’s been successful. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. All those cliche sayings. I ask them the one question I say, Listen, is that true? Is what you just said? True? It’s just a question. I let them sit with that. And then I say, why do you believe that? Let them talk. Just let them purge it out, man. This is because it’s been this way. And my this is a third generation company in no way. I mean, you hear everything. And the last thing I ask is, how is that serving you and your clients? And this is the one where they’re like, oh, man, wait, I am working 80 hours a week. And my work, you know, I’m not loving it right now. My relationships aren’t great. And that that’s where they start to see, wait, there might be a better way of doing this. And it’s literally three questions. And by the way, you can apply this to anything in life, not just business, for instance, I’m shy. Okay. Is that true? Why do you believe that? And here’s what you’re going to find? Because I was told I was shy since the age of eight, and it’s hardwired into my brain. That’s who I am. Well, is that actually true? Well, no, it is. Or maybe it’s not, whatever you decide, I don’t care if you’re shy, or you’re outgoing. That doesn’t mean anything to me. How is that serving their venue, right? And when you’re like, oh, man, I’m actually really lonely and unhappy because I wear this badge of honor that I’m shy, because that’s what everybody told me. I was. You guess what if for 44 years, you were shy, and on your 45th birthday, you said, I’m going to be the most outgoing person in the world. No one can stop you. That’s a choice that you have. Right? Now, people are still going to call you shy your mom and your dad and your siblings. And guess what? That’s a label. And labels are meant for boxes, man, they’re not meant for people.

Karan Rhodes  19:19

That’s right. And you can throw a label away and create a new one for yourself so, I love that. Well, umm from the perspective like in the world of work, you know, leaders are always struggling to quote unquote, upgrade their teams as well or give them an upgrade mentality so that they hopefully can become an even higher part performing team or organization. What can leaders do to pass on some of what they realized by being courageous and upgrading themselves? How can they pass that energy and cinnamon onto their teams?

JM Ryerson  19:57

Yeah, this is a great question. By the way. Because often we’ll go tell people, this is the policy change that we’re doing. And you have immediate resistance. You have to tell the why, here’s why we’re doing this, this is the benefit that you’re going to get. So Karan, we’re going to be changing this policy. And you’re going well, I like this way that we do it, because I’m used to it. And it seems to be really efficient. Here’s the deal Karan. And we’re doing that because it’s actually going to reduce how much time you’re at work, it’s going to improve your efficiency, you’re gonna make more money, whatever the benefit is, if you don’t give a why as a leader, you’re just constantly going to be in a tug of war with them. But if you’re like, hey, here’s what we’ve come up with. Please, we welcome your feedback. Here’s why we’re doing it. And by the way, as we’re doing this, please continue to give us feedback and leaders. Listen, don’t just keep telling them. This is what we’re doing. This is the pause. Listen to what they’re saying. It’s gold, don’t take it personally. Thank them every time you get feedback, I don’t care how harsh it is. Somebody says You are the worst leader in the world. JM, thank you. Can you tell me how I can do better? Yeah. And if we can, yeah, please, yes.

Karan Rhodes  21:11

Can I add to that? Listen and reflect upon the learnings afterwards. So listen to them there. But then take a moment after the conversation to reflect on it. And think about how you can do things better encourage them more rearrange processes to make them easier, or whatever. Because sometimes, first of all, leaders don’t listen a lot. They want to talk and they forget to actively listen. And then once they do that feedback, as you said, is a gift. So why not reflect you know, not for, you know, 30 days on it. But you know, take a few moments afterwards, and reflect how can I use this feedback to make things even better than they are right now.

JM Ryerson  21:55

It’s probably the number one lesson for any salesperson listening, if you want to improve right now, ask for feedback, both from the people that purchase from you. But even more importantly, the people that didn’t. And here’s what’s crazy. Hey, Karen, I noticed you didn’t move forward with us today. Can I ask you why? Yeah, Jay, I didn’t like you. Fair enough. Karen, I appreciate your honesty. Thank you so much. If I had somebody different, actually take care of you. Would that maybe be a better option for you? You know what, actually, yeah. And guess what, you have a sale. And by the way, I gave the most the least frequent answer. They rarely are gonna say yes, you’re the problem. It’s usually a price thing, or it’s something but just ask for feedback and get to the real reason they said no. Feedback is, so it’s just gold. And if once you can learn to accept it, man, you can grow so much faster.

Karan Rhodes  22:50

Oh, you’re so right, you’re spot on, on that. So I’m gonna take a little curveball here. JM, because there’s some that we always love to ask our guest. And as you know, I wrote a book called Lead at the Top of Your Game, it was all about the results of research on best practices on leadership execution. And we always love to ask our guests, you know, which one of the seven tactics that we write about, really pot for them. And as you leaders, as listeners, I’m sorry, as you know, all seven are equally as important. You just pull and use them different times based on the situation. But I thought it was really interesting that you selected leading with intellectual horsepower, with one that really resonated with you. And for my newer listeners, if you’re not aware, leading with intellectual horsepower is all about using your own internal knowledge and areas of expertise, to identify, you know, new opportunities or things that others may have missed is all about using the tools and knowledge that you already have to bring value to yourself, your others, your family, what have you. So I’m just curious for you JM, why that one really resonated with you? And how can people you know, usually use that to improve their leadership skills?

JM Ryerson  24:08

Yeah, this comes from you and I were talking off air about how travel has been a huge part of our lives. Well, here’s why it gives you a different perspective. For instance, I come from the finance service. I already said that, and that was a very, as we called it, male, pale and stale. I mean, you are talking. It’s a bunch of middle aged white dudes, that was really what it was about 90%. And here’s the challenge. That’s not the way our world looks, and you’re lacking so many amazing perspectives. So my wife, she’s a little Asian girl, she’s about 5″1″. 5″2″. It’s funny, I’m six, five, so you can just do your visual, but she comes from a totally different background. She’s half Chinese half Thai. And so the way we were raised She was raised in California. I was raised in Montana. Well, our perspectives are vastly different. And by the way, that’s a good thing. That’s a great thing. sSomebody that was raised in Europe versus being in America, this is a global economy now. This is not just stuck in whatever pocket of your world. And so that’s why I think it’s so valuable. When you look at your team, I’m not saying it has to be, you know, the United Nations, but why not? Why not get a different perspective, bring someone, male, female, you know, all all cultures, bring them in, because guess what you’re getting such valuable perspective that you cannot buy. And so that’s why that’s so important to me. Because when I went to study abroad, my world went from Montana. And, you know, basically the, you know, whatever little pocket of the US I traveled to, to now Europe, and then I traveled the majority of Europe, well, guess what each country had their own culture. And each had a ton of great insight. When I traveled to South Africa, I learned a ton about when I traveled to South America, and all through there. So when you do these trips, what you realize is, wait a minute, my scope is only as big as my lens is exactly how big my experiences have been. And I can utilize other people’s perspectives, I just think it’s one of the most I know, they’re all really important. I know that but for me, this is just one of those things, and it makes the world so much more interesting.

Karan Rhodes  26:26

It truly does. And you’re so right. And one of the things that you know, because I was, you know, I’m a Georgia peach, I was born in the state of Georgia and grew up here, UGA grad, you know, all of that. But, you know, relatively, we have our own kind of gentle way of the South, but being able to travel the world, it really made to your point, it made me appreciate the diversity of perspectives that are out there, and respecting people for their whole selves. You know, it really bothers you know, people from South America to be all be lumped together, you know, you have to respect those from Brazil and the different cultures in Brazil, compared to those from Mexico or, you know, Peru, you name it, just really respecting, you know, their cultures and their perspectives is just wonderful. And to your point, when you’re able to open your eyes and bring those in those perspectives into your daily life. You’re so much more richer, so much more, you know.

JM Ryerson  27:34

No, it’s sure it’s absolutely I, we could go on this, this could be an entire podcast.

Karan Rhodes  27:41

Well, I got one last question for you, JM, before we let you go. So I’m just curious, what does it take for you to lead at the top of your game?

JM Ryerson  27:49

Well, that’s about a two and a half hour morning routine that I do every single morning. And I’ll give you know what, because I know that’s too much. I told you earlier, take care of your mind, your body, your soul. So for instance, the first thing I do is a gratitude practice before my left foot hits the ground, because that’s the side of the bed I sleep on. I say three things I’m grateful for no matter how bad I gotta run to the bathroom, I’m like, nope, three things I’m grateful for. That starts my day off in a good way. Now, I go into my breathing exercise that’s about 11 minutes long. Then I go into my meditation practice, then I go into my journaling, then I do my my mantras. Then I do my yoga practice. And that’s like the tip of the iceberg before I do my workouts, fuel my body, all the other reading. But that’s how mine looks like. And the reason it’s so important for me. My wife asked me all the time, she’s like, JM, it’s too much. I say baby, I’m trying to operate differently than than everyone else. And I’m not that anyone else’s bad. This is for me,

Karan Rhodes  28:55

But it works for you, right?

JM Ryerson  28:56

Yeah, this is what works. For me. This is what allows me to show up on Karen show with the amount of energy by the way, I’m on a this is my 3 day fast. I’m in day three, my water fast. Last week was a four day water fast, because I want to push myself. And so it’s one of those things where it’s like, why do you do these things? Because why not? So many people, I’ll tell them about that water fest, like I could never do it. Is that true? Why do you believe that? How is that serving you? Well, and so it’s just one of those things that for me doing that morning routine allows me to show up as best leader, husband, parent, whatever hat I’m wearing at the time.

Karan Rhodes  29:35

Oh, I love that. Thank you so much for for sharing that. And owning that that’s the right mix for you at this point in time and what you’re doing and encouraging others to do the same because I’m sure you know that including me, there’s some things I did that my family were like, Why, you know? But I have to have my me time and whatever I do for me gives me energy to like Like you said, to bring to other things that I’m working on the table. So I literally blinked, JM and I can’t believe we’re at the end of the recording time. But before we let you go, of course, we’re gonna have a ton of information about where to find you and, and in the show notes, but I would love for you to give voice to that where people can find more information about you, how to get in contact with you, so they love to bring you into their organizations or work with you one on one.

JM Ryerson  30:27

Yeah, I appreciate that. So, the most traction, social media wise would be Instagram, letsgowin365 Let’s go in podcast, go check out Karan’s episode, she’s gonna kill it, I know that for sure. It’s gonna be awesome. And then the website, you know, go to www.letsgowin.com. Just hit me up. Let me know, man, I love serving people, I love helping them hit the goals that they want to achieve. And while doing that, you know, be able to enjoy the other aspects of their life. So, Karan, this is a really a treat to be here. I appreciate you so much. So thanks for having me.

Karan Rhodes  31:04

Oh, thank you, JM, thank you for the gift to your time. And listeners, you definitely want to check him out in the website out this energy that he is brought to this podcast. He will give you five times more as you talk to him about what’s particularly top of mind for you. So thanks again to listeners for joining another episode at least at the top of your game, please be sure to subscribe and share with just one friend so that they too, can get empowered to lead at the top of their game. Thanks again and see you next week. And that’s our show for today. Thank you for listening to the lead at the top of your game podcast, where we help you lead your seat at any employer, business, or industry in which you choose to play. You can check out the show notes, additional episodes, and bonus resources, and also submit guest recommendations on our website at leadyourgamepodcast.com. You can follow me on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn by searching for the name Karan Rhodes with Karan being spelled K a r a n. And if you like the show, the greatest gift you can give would be to subscribe and leave a rating on your podcast platform of choice. This podcast has been a production of Shockingly Different Leadership, a global consultancy which helps organizations execute their people, talent development, and organizational effectiveness initiatives on an on-demand, project, or contract basis. Huge thanks to our production and editing team for a job well done. Goodbye for now.